City of Amnesia

Well I've gone and done it now! The infamous "Who does Roger Love" thread, that seems to plauge every Big-O board since the beginnings of our beloved series. But I tend to enjoy a good debate and this seems the most interesting. So why not?! Let's have fun with this.

   Overtime I really have come to appreciate Angel. I will admit that when I first saw the series my bias was slanted in Dorothy's favor. However from repeated viewings of series (and thanks to Tifaria's splendid writing) I've come to find Angel quite the agreeable character. She is not perfect by any means, but she has proven to be a resilient and intelligent character. I have come to like her attitude very much. She is not perfect, but niether is anyone else. So I really dislike it when people resort to name-calling referent to Angel. She isn't a stank, slut, or whatever else people like to label her. She is merely a woman confronted with a very odd romantic situation. However because I do like Angel doesn't mean that I think Roger loves her. I will always be a DorothyxRoger shipper, naturally.

  I do believe, thinking in realistic (well about as realistic as you can be when it comes to an anime) terms that perhaps Roger and Angel are the only two characters who had a prayer of a chance of being in a (semi) normal relationship. I believe that is why Roger wants that kind of relationship with her. He craves that contact that he cannot have with R. Dorothy. It's an odd situation any way look slice it. Had R. Dorothy been human, I don't think that Angel would've figured into the equation for Roger. Although Roger may be attracted to Angel he'd love Dorothy. When you think of it, Dorothy and Roger are better suited to one another. Dorothy is a good companion for Roger. The big road block is that Roger is doubtful as to whether or not an andriod can feel love. Which for him is a big issue, he is a character who prides himself on being logical, it would require a huge leap of faith for him to believe that an andriod and human could fall in love. The other obsticle to overcome is that contact, Dorothy is an andriod. She cannot be in a physical relationship with Roger. However in, Negotiations with the Dead, Roger does see that a human/andriod relationship is possible (although the mechanics of such are a mystery).

Well in any even my vote is that Roger loves Dorothy, to me at least all signs lead to the same conclusion. It may be an "impossible" love they have for one another (but it's so romantic!).

Discuss! ^.^

Gummi, I am glad that you started this thread, the R-D/R-A thread is one of my favorites. ;D

Roger may pride himself on being logical but often he seems to confuse logic with denial. In situations that go slightly beyond his ability to control, he becomes very emotional.  For example, he says that his forgotten past means nothing to him, but every time he confronts it, he becomes weak in the knees, literally.  
However Roger is a very moral person with a strict personal code of ethics.  He prides himself on being a gentleman.   This strict sense of honor along with a privileged upbringing, wealth, looks, a kick-ass car and a kick-ass megadeus combine to give him a sense of superiority.   ex I don't remember which episode it was but Roger was really upset that his "name was associated with a lowlife like Beck."  

Roger is sexually attracted to Angel and intrigued by her mysterious activities but  she lacks his strong sense of honor, furthermore she isn't enough of a challenge for him.  Once the physical attraction faded, she'd bore him.  
 
Dorothy on the other hand constantly challenges Roger. She is superior to him in many ways and is not afraid to show it.  Her manners are even more aristocratic than Roger's and her code of ethics that is at least as strict.  Dorothy forces Roger to constantly re-evaluate his feelings and beliefs.   Gummi is right when she says that if Dorothy were human, Angel wouldn't have a chance.   But Dorothy isn't human which gives any romantic relationship between them two obstacles to overcome.  First there's Roger's issues with inter-species dating.  He's human, she's a machine.  Roger is afraid that he can never be sure which responses are really Dorothy and which responses are programmed.
  
The second obstacle is Roger's tendency to deny his true feelings.  He is attracted to Dorothy, which scares him so at first he tries to play up the mechanical aspects of her nature.  "Why do you try to mimic us, you will never be human." but being basically honest, eventually he's forced to admit that Dorothy is capable of emotion.  His behaviors toward Dorothy change after she's attacked by Alan Gabriel, but although he seems to respect Dorothy more, he treats her like a sister rather than a possible lover.  

The closest Roger comes to facing his feelings for Dorothy comes after he thinks that she's damaged beyond repair; even then he's still ambivalent.   (although he did have a few other things on his mind like saving the world).  

Mine too. But face it, the "impossible" love angle makes Big O much more interesting. Without it Big Owould just be Gigantor in color.

Honestly, as much as I love Angel and will defend her to anyone, she is unfortunately not the one meant for Roger.  I do think that the reason Roger lead Angel on, however briefly, was because of his unwillingness to accept his feelings for Dorothy.  To him, the thought of a human being in love with an android is, in his own words, preposterous, so he decides it's easier to deny his feelings for Dorothy and persue Angel.  And he's definitely attracted to Angel, but those feelings for Dorothy are always lingering in the back of his mind.      

However, I think he really did care for Angel too, although he has a weird way of showing it.  I mean, he did come to save her in the end.  But.. it's not her, and that sucks.  It's one thing to be in love with someone who doesn't return your feelings, but it's another to love someone who you know you can never have because of reasons beyond your control.  That's how it is for Angel.  There's this.. thing.. between Roger and Dorothy, that I don't think even they understand, and it prevents anyone else from getting between them.  And it's true, if Dorothy were human, Angel wouldn't be in the picture at all.  

I dunno, I can't pretend to understand the whole human/android thing, because I have a hard time wrapping my mind around that, but I also can't deny that Roger and Dorothy have a weird connection.  

Both wrong. Clearly, the answer is Dastun.

I voted Dorothy, Roger had his chance with Angel but of course hesitated bad.
And then there's that question Dorothy popped to him about 'Would they have fallen in love if hey had just lost their memories' and he later on answered 'maybe' when she was unconscious.

Beck and Roger forever?
War.

Aw man, you just made me remember some really bad big o images i saw on 4chan once *shudder*

Yeeeah... if we're gonna go that route, my vote is for Beck.  

Beck and Roger?? Only if both were heavily medicated.

I could see Beck and Alan though.  They'd get along beautifully.

Oh, I don't mean it's plausible, I just mean that between Beck and Dastun, Beck is more interesting to me.  Roger and Dastun are too much like an old married couple.  

Hahaha, Alan/Beck amuses me.  :D  

... I can't believe I'm seriously discussing this.

But you know why I'm glad we are? And it only just occurs to me that I've bottled up this sentiment for so long: it's because dammit, there is more to this series' relationship possibilities than Roger/Dorothy and Roger/Angel. *huffs.*

(Also I agree, I'd actually prefer Roger/Beck over Roger/Dastun, but the thing is, Roger/Beck couldn't actually be a relationship, per se, and they'd still hate each other pretty good. :3 That doesn't make it not hot, though. :X But Roger/Dastun actually has the capacity to be a little warm and fuzzy, in that kind of brusque masculine way they have.)

I'm still very interested in knowing just what Alan and Angel's history is all about. I also CAN'T be the only one who was highly interested in Alex's conversation with Beck about how "well, Alan's dead now, so I want you to work together with me. Forever." And Alex's apparent extreme aversion to/disrespect of women.

COME OOOOON, GUYS, EXERCISE THOSE IMAGINATIONS.


[EDIT:] Oh, also:

I demand that you show me these images at once.

Well, and see, the other thing is, I've gotten such crap before for being a Roger/Angel fan, so it's kinda weird to me that hey, Roger/any other male seems to be okay with most (not all, but even people who don't like it just turn a blind eye to it) people, but you even mention Angel to some people and they're all OMG NO THAT WHORE.   ::)  

Dude, I'm not even normally into slash/yaoi/whatever, but, uh.. Roger/Beck would be all about the rivalry/hate, and that's kinda hot.  

I am also very intrigued by Angel and Alan's past.  I keep wishing someone would write that fic, but alas, no one's really writing Big-O fic anymore, much less about either of them.  Everyone wants to write about Roger and Dorothy.  

You know, I was re-watching season two not long ago, and I did think Alex's line towards Beck was kinda out of the blue, but I didn't really give it any thought.

True, but I think that Alex was just flattering Beck.  Judging from how quickly and neatly Alex got rid of Alan, I don't think Alex defines 'forever' the way most of us do.

Angry sex, Xel?
War.

The angriest. :3

Ahaha, that's true. But it's still forever for him. Even if only for that moment. XD I don't think Alex thinks and deals with emotions quite the way a normal person does, overall. He's kinda... stunted in a few areas, as we've seen.

I am not going to vote due to an alternate explination: ROGER EITHER LIKE BOTH OR HATES BOTH. Roger dated Angel and kissed Dorothy, it is a love triangle like in GODZILLA KING OF THE MONSTERS.

Nnn? When did he kiss Dorothy?

Alex/Alan still might be my favorite potential pairing in the series, though. (Though Alex/Vera IS kind of hot.)

Kissed Dorothy? Wow I wish he actually would've! Well I don't think he ever really technically "dated" Angel...except for when they went to the diner and held hands in the moonlight...so I think that counts as one date. I do agree that Roger is attracted to both women, strongly. And while we can infer that he is "in love" or at least has strong feelings towards Dorothy, we can equally infer that he sees more of a romantic possibility in Angel.

So I'm going to bring up that damned bouquet! :o I remember that causing quite the stir in ol' PCF. At first I was convinced the bouquet was for Dorothy, now I believe it was for Angel but because Roger was actually thinking of Dorothy. Allow me to explain, Roger purchased the bouquet because he felt guilty. What Angel said was pretty much on point, and he knew it. He knew that because of his insecurity about Dorothy he was unable to commit to anything with Angel. He stated himself that one of the rules of negotiation was taking the other persons feelings into consideration. He had hurt Angel because deep down he wasn't sure of his own feelings. I think he wanted to make things right with Angel. I'm pretty sure that Roger is also insecure about what Dorothy's feelings were towards him, as well. So in a way perhaps Dorothy and Roger felt their feelings were unrequited but never dared to really communicate them to eachother. So I'm assuming that's where the confusion lies. I mean "She's an android, I'm a human how is this going to work"(or vice versa) There is a part of him that seems to be intrigued by Dorothy but  equally perplexed by her. When Dorothy asked about the bouquet, I think he realized that in some backwards way Dorothy was the reason he bought it. Because his repressed feelings for her had caused the confrontation between he and Angel. Or perhaps he also cared enough about Dorothy not to tell her that the flowers were really for Angel. Or maybe he really did just buy them for Dorothy. Well, any way you slice he's one confused little negotiator.

That makes perfect sense to me, especially considering how Angel had just mentioned Bluebells to Roger (and the bouquet was of Bluebells. Evidence!).

Very cool, I feel that you really dredged about in the romantic morass of Big O and turned up a gem.

So according to your line of thinking, Roger's giving Dorothy the single Bluebell was just his way of saying "Congratulations, you've won a consolation prize for your involvement!"


Best pairing?

My vote goes for... no nevermind, you wouldn't wanna know.
But as a hint

- It's a pairing that could work only once in the lifetime of either partner,
- And last only briefly, that is for about five to twenty-five minutes.

Hee, and then yes if you figure it out, I mostly kid.


On a serious note: Instro/Dorothy! That would send me brimming with warm fuzzies.

Would it be the most boring, platonic romance ever? Yeah. But it could also be exceedingly, adorably awkward. Lookit' the little robots being so sweet and innocent and pure. It's like kittens interacting.

Hm.. the flowers Roger bought aren't exactly the same as Angel's bluebells, but then, I suppose they're the closest thing that grows in the city.  I never have been able to make up my mind on who the flowers were for.  It makes more sense that they were for Angel, but he never gives them to her.  It seems like he's still conflicted up until the very end, and even then, he never really makes an outright choice.  I guess that's why you see Angel and Dorothy together at the end?  Kind of a "may the best woman win" thing.  Or something.  I dunno.

Aww, Instro/Dorothy would be super cute, even if it is kinda wholesome and boring.  Hey, they could double-date with Roger and Dastun.   :D

Wow, 100% for Dorothy:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s81/GalateaKusanagi/EPICWIN.gif)

Oh, don't play the fool. In the last episode, when Dorthy was giving Roger mouth to mouth, SHE HAD HER EYES CLOSED!!!!!!!

Wrong to the extreme. She never once gives Roger mouth-to-mouth. The louse only suggested it after she'd crushed her air tank.

Ah, yes, how foolish I was to fail to recall something that never happened! 8D

It seems that all of us (except probably Big Finale) hasn't watched Big O for a while that we have forgot key elements as "who has kissed who" (which can be answered with the singe word of "nobody").

I suggest that we all go back to our tellys/pcs/cinema-mansion and marathon the series for yourselves again (that's what i'll be doing in my october holiday)

Hmmm...android love. I guess Dorothy would be indefatigable.

TV

I'm extremely offended by this post. There ought to be a Schwarzwald x Roger pairing. The two are obviously secretly in love; I mean, what else is with that letter Schwarzwald sent Roger in the event of his death? Obviously, it is a pronouncement of love, and the writers couldn't let us read it because of homophobic parents in North America. Also, did any of you notice that Roger seemed upset when Angel told him Schwarzwald was dead? Pretty strange, considering their past emnity . . . and did you see how worked up he got after Alan went for a joy ride in his "Schwartzies" precious Big Duo? I mean, really, take a look . . . once you put it into perspective, its the only way to make sense of the series (especially Act 14 and 26). It's the secret key to the mysteries.

....................................... but seriously? Thematically, Dorothy is probably meant to be Roger's lover. I think the directors and writers of the Big O were in synch with each other in this regard; also, I remember reading that Angel didn't even exist in the earlier conceptions of the series, whereas Dorothy was on board since the very beginning as 'the android girl that lives with Roger'. Dorothy's relationship with Roger gets much more screentime and is, uh, well, developed more and made more complex, although the writers do take some steps to ensure that Angel gets some screentime.

10 Reasons Why Dorothy is Roger's True Love

1. Dorothy and Angel love the same man and couldn't live under the same roof if one of them was in a relationship with him while the other could just watch. So, one of them would have to 'disappear'. It is easier to imagine Angel disappearing and never being heard from again than Dorothy disappearing and never being heard from again.

2. Dorothy has 20-40 'special scenes' with Roger. Angel has only 10-15. The word 'special' is used very flexibly, but you get the point.

3. Angel is visibly spurned by Roger when he goes to save Dorothy and hesitates to kiss her. Although Roger doesn't completely renounce Angel, Dorothy is never subjected to a similar treatment - the worst she gets is that Roger doesn't completely renounce company with Angel, and then (possibly) only because Dorothy didn't disclose the fact Angel left her to die at hands of Alan Gabriel.

4. The writers and directors of the Big O came up with Dorothy's character at the very beginning, whereas Angel was a later stipulation.

5. Dorothy lives with Roger and is therefore a more established part of his life. If Angel moved in, Dorothy would have to leave. Does that seem likely to any of you? Or do you think it is more likely Angel and Roger would not move in together?

6. For that matter, does Angel seem like the type of woman who moves in with anybody?

7. Dorothy's relationship with Roger is elaborated on more often throughout the series; the writers make a special point of the human-android dilemma. Do you think it is likely that the writers would decide to conclude this dilemma by saying "NOPE! ANDROIDS AND HUMANS CAN'T BE IN LOVE!" by putting Roger with Angel instead of Dorothy?

8. Angel is a femme fatalle and they usually don't end up with the hero at the end; at least, not in comparison with the 'nice girl', who usually mends the heroes shattered heart after the femme fatalle lets him down in some way. Femme fatalles sometimes end up with the hero, but their nature usually dictates they betray or leave him; even if they love him.

9. Roger thinks about Dorothy more often than Angel; and his thought patterns are more interesting and prominent in this regard.

10. Roger and Dorothy share more episodes and screentime with one another.

Maybe Dorothy represents what Roger wants to be, but can't be.

Roger is a negotiator and as such he tries to be logical and not be affected by his emotions. However, he often fails at doing so and he thinks this is a flaw in his character.

Dorothy can block out her emotions perfectly which is something Roger can't do. She also knows how to cause Roger to lose control of his emotions and does so rather frequently. It's almost as if she's intentionally showing Roger that he is only human.



Just a random theory.

Dorothy can't block out her emotions, but she sometimes convinces herself she doesn't (or can't or shoudn't) have them, which isn't something she is happy about it, although she sometimes pretends it is an advantage (probably just to make herself feel a bit better about it all). However, she noticeably attempts to become more human-like as the series progresses, in the sense she tries to interact more meaningfully with other beings and establishes lasting relationships with various members of the cast to varying degrees; Roger and Norman in particular, Instro (but probably mostly off-screen), Dastun and Angel in part, you get the idea.

None of Dorothy's dialogue or actions indicate that she blocks out emotions; just that she doesn't think it is very likely she does, can, or should have them.

In the second season, Negotiation with the Dead, Roger asks Dorothy if she feels nostalgic, and she says she is grateful to Dr. Waynewright for designing her so she wouldn't have emotions like that . . . it is possible she still thinks that she can't feel emotions, but after the events of the first season (she couldn't have possibly convinced herself she felt nothing about Perro the cat or Roger when she shortcircuits herself in order to prevent herself from killing him) . . . it is probably just that her self-knowledge has increased to the point that she has become aware that some emotions may be beyond her, and nostalgia may be one of them. However, she could still feel other emotions, and using these as a springboard, might develop the ability to feel nostalgia in the due course of time. Emotions in androids may have to 'evolve' in them first, perhaps starting from just pure, logical thought and then becoming something else, or maybe because they always had the ability to feel emotion and just needed a chance to express it, or maybe a mix of the two.

Heh, I like this. "Man's better half" is... machine?

SD posted
I always thought that Dorothy was being sarcastic when she said that.

Dorothy doesn't lack emotions, she lacks tact.  She is very open and honest about her feelings but expresses them at inappropriate times, i.e. in "The Greatest Villian" where she embarrases Roger by refering to him as "the man I love" in front of Beck.  She also becomes upset with Roger, stalking out of the room when he indicates that he doesn't return her feelings, "Demonseed", "Day of the Advent"

Roger is the one who constantly denies his feelings and not just about his feelings for Dorothy.  He repeatedly states that he doesn't care about the past, yet when parts of his past emerge, he becomes extremely emotional sometimes to the point of almost passing out, i.e. the lunch scene with Alex in "Hydra"

My,my, the amount of speculation you all put into this is enough to right an essay on, ... i wonder if my english teacher would take it... :P

Something I find interesting, however, is that if you look in the artbook, one of the early concept drawings for Dorothy is very close to what Angel ended up looking like.  Also, how do you know that they didn't have Angel in mind from the beginning?  I ask this in all seriousness, because I really don't know much about what the writers/directors have said regarding their plans for the show.



I can't see Angel living with anyone.. currently, that is.  I have my theories about her past.  But the way she is now, no, I don't see her picking up and moving in with Roger, even if he were to reciprocate her feelings.  She's accustomed to being able to come and go as she pleases, and I think that living with someone would make her feel restricted.  Plus, I think they'd fight over the bathroom too much.  :D 

"Angel!  I need to do my hair!"
"Then you shouldn't have slept so late!"
"But I have a client!"
"So do I.  By the way, you're out of hair gel."
Etc, etc. 

But even if Angel moved in, I don't think it would be that Dorothy had to leave so much as she would likely choose to.  Roger would never throw her out, even if he ended up choosing the other woman.  He chose to protect Dorothy, and I think he's got a strict enough sense of nobility that he would hold himself to that.  Although I guess that he can do that even without Dorothy living there anymore.  I don't know. 


I think the only thing you could count as Angel letting Roger down would be not saving Dorothy from Alan, but he never finds out about that.  She does betray him quite often for the first half of the series, but has a noticeable change of heart after that.  So I don't think that Dorothy has much "mending of the heart" to do in regards to Roger.  It's more that she has to break past that big ol' wall of denial he's put up.  He already realizes that he doesn't love Angel-- but he also won't admit that he feels anything for Dorothy. 

I don't care what anybody says. I still feel sorry for Angel.  :'(

I know Dorothy doesn't lack emotions, although she seems more uncertain as to what they are and what they are like than the average human. It could be that Dorothy doesn't feel certain types of emotions; nostalgia could be one of them. She did say "I am grateful to Dr. Waynewright for designing me so I wouldn't have emotions like that", which makes me think she might not be experiencing the full range of human emotions, but is capable of some . . . fear, resentment, gratitude, joy, and love (or some type of romantic attatchment) are emotions I know she can definitely feel, as she does demonstrate them during the series.

I don't see how Dorothy could have been being sarcastic. Nor do I see anything wrong with her cognition being of a mode somewhat different (but in other ways similar) than that of mainstream humanity, as she is a unique kind of being . . . that Dorothy can't feel nostalgia doesn't trouble me, so long as she can feel other, more important emotions.


I know Roger would never physically force Dorothy to leave, or ask her or want her to, but I mean, plot-and-character wise, both women can't live under the same roof if their counterpart is romantically involved with Roger for a prolonged period of time. Neither of their personalities could stand it. However, if neither of them were romantically involved with Roger, they would probably tolerate each other for awhile.

Is Dorothy made to be loved?

Plot-wise, she was obviously intended to be the main love interest. In terms of her manufacture... That's for her to know and Roger to find out!

She's kind of heavy...

Two words for the lot of you: "AUGH. GEARS."

Angel only got 4 votes!  This is blasphemy! This is madness! *Is a Angel fan* The girl need some love.  Though many of you see Dorothy is perfect for Roger I rather see more R/A I'm sure thing would have work out if they more free time.  Who knows what they talk about in ep 7 behind our backs?

Man, forget you all. I vote for Angel/Dorothy. :<

Never mention this again. It is too good. We're but moths to the TOWERING INFERNO that is this pairing.

Did it ever occur to anyone that the last scene of the show suggests that in the next iteration, Dorothy and Angel will be lovers before Roger meets them? (It is an anime, after all.)

Heh... wait, I hope you're not serious. Big O isn't risqué like that.

Really? There seemed to be plenty of bondage and flagellation. And in the new world that begins after the reset, who knows? (and before anyone objects that its for childern--Sailor Uranus. Sailor Neptune).

But more seriously, I am not among those that favor a third season anyway (It would just be more of the same), but I do think that the romances in the show have to be interpreted allegorically--like the Song of Songs.

Vera/Angel would be acceptable as well, but I get the sense that I'm alone in this.

I agree with you, too, man. I can't begin to tell you how bad I felt for Angel in the second season. She had to deal with some serious shit (what with ending up as the Director and all), so losing the man of her dreams to a robit must've been a blow. Even though she accepted it, I doubt any girl would be so carefree after letting Roger Smith pass by.

I keep on forgetting that Angel is the more practical choice for Roger, to an extent. Hmm... This is why no one should ever create a robot that looks like a person!

Yeah, it doesn't fly so well. They had a very shallow relationship in the show, so the emotional groundwork isn't laid. On top of that, their aesthetic is conventional blond beauty, so nothing exotic pops out at my eye, or into my imagination.

I'd definitely be intrigued if you wrote a fic, which described all the experiences the women have shared in the past. You wouldn't even need to mention much about a physical aspect before my imagination would take over.

Back a while ago at SBO a certain question me about if I accept Roger and Angel together.  Why not Roger and Dorothy?  Then throws me a curve ball of Hediki and Chi from Chobits.  A series I was watching at Zola's which I found to be a ok anime I watch.  The whole human and persocom relationship was both good and bad but Chi with Hediki seem to be right for me.  Though is a difference that Chi is like a child and cute to watch compare to Dorothy who seems to be cold at times.

Pffft, I'm not suggesting it be CREDIBLE. ;O That takes all the fun out of it. Besides, it's hardly necessary for two characters to have a deep preexisting relationship for something to... happen.

In terms of building upon aspects already present, however, that does leave me still feeling extremely fond of both Alex/Alan and Vera/Alan. Mrf.

...Of course, I feel that I should clarify at this point, it's true that the relationships I describe more often than not have nothing to do with romance. At least not in a conventional sense, anyway. :3

No doubt in my mind about that. I mean it like this:

Two blonds? One with an affinity for the whip? You gotta use a little more imagination to hold my interest. Way too perfect, unless you flesh it out some.


 ::) :P

Well, there is the creepy mommy aspect of it...

While I agree with R. Daniel that Angel/Dorothy would be smoking hot, and while I could let my imagine run wild about what Angel's and Dorothy's conversation at Roger's really meant (after Roger rescues Dorothy from Alan). That whole "you don't like me/but I like you" thing... Oh, I better stop... This is just plain wrong...but thanks Xel. My boring day is now interesting. :)

Sorry, but although Angel and Dorothy share one frame at the end, they look like strangers waiting for a bus rather than a couple. The body language just isn't right... Sorry, Anebo, I know you wanted this to work out...

Dark-O/Baker: I feel bad for Angel, too. But then again, Dorothy's situation isn't great either. I used to compare Dorothy to Edward Scissorhands, but unlike Edward, she is "finished". Dr. Waynewright/Mr. Soldano, did the best they could. It's like an old computer game I remember, where if you died, the game attempted to "put you back together", but hinted that it couldn't restore you 100%.

That's R. Dorothy's situation - the late Dorothy Wayneright's memories, a "reset" personality (which is also a limited personality - the best her technology can provide), and a body that mostly resembles the human Dorothy (once again, as far her technology can provide), but with amazing strength and agility. She needs Roger to help her become less concerned with what's "missing" and just live. He's already dealing with "missing" memories.

I was rooting for Angel/Dastun big time, since Dan's first love interest died in Winter Night Phantom. Plus he had a conversation with her when he retrieved her gun. This would have only smoldered at first, but I'm thinking it would
have gotten real serious after that.

Yeah Angel/Vera wouldn't have worked because of the mom/child relationship... Ick...

I stand by what I said earlier, which is that, thematically, Dorothy has been played up to be Roger's soul mate. And much more so than Angel. Roger ending up with Angel would contradict the most pivotal plot-moving/character-developing devices in the first season, which is Roger's relationship with Dorothy. This is fleshed out far more often than his relationship with Angel. Although the second season tries to develop Roger's relationship with Angel (and his chemistry with Dorothy simmers down a bit in some respects), even this seems to ultimately suggest Dorothy is the favorite for Roger's affections.

I don't think Roger bought the flowers for Angel. That idea doesn't make much sense, given how Angel was on the run and Roger was aware of this fact. It doesn't strike me as realistic Roger would go to the trouble of hunting Angel down just to give her a bouquet (not his style). It is much more commons ensical to assume they were meant for Dorothy. Maybe he got them because Dorothy almost getting hacked into little pieces by Alan Gabriel made him a little emotional for a day or two.

Heck, even Norman was trying to drive Dorothy and Roger together somewhat in the first season. The butler, for god's sake. I don't think this and other events aside can be contradicted by sending Roger and Angel off to the wedding altar.

Have I mentioned that I'm glad Big Finale is playing Vera in the RP?   :P 



Ugh, I strongly dislike the phrase "soul mate".  To me that phrase is what's wrong with a lot of relationships today, but that's a rant for another day. 

Anyway.  I don't see why Roger would dump Angel the way he did and then run off to buy flowers for Dorothy.  Those flowers resembled Angel's bluebell, although were not exactly the same.  Why buy them for Dorothy?  Dorothy knows nothing of bluebells.  Besides, he had a rather guilty look on his face when Angel ran off.  He doesn't seem like the type to hurt a woman and not make it right again, even if that woman is not the one for him.  His sense of honor is too high.   

Besides, he DOES hunt Angel down after that, although the flowers never get to her.  When Dorothy relays Angel's message to Roger, he decides that the only thing to do is hear it from Angel herself.  He even says in his monologue that he is always chasing after people who have left, or something to that effect. 

I stand by the theory that Norman tried to shove them together because he knew Big-O needed an android.  I'm sure he noticed their attraction, but from a practical standpoint, they needed her anyway.  Roger and Dorothy's feelings for each other were a bonus. 

I'm not saying Roger and Angel will ever run off and get married.  Angel doesn't seem like the marrying type anyway.  What I am saying is that Angel is a big part of his life whether anyone likes it or not. 



Angel/Dastun seems completely one-sided to me.  Dastun's obviously attracted to her-- he keeps going over her file and asking if she's been caught-- but I wonder if it's just because Angel vaguely resembles Sybil Rowan.  I can't see Angel being attracted to Dastun.  He's too old and gruff for her.  She wants the dashing knight in shining armor type a la Roger Smith. 

Alright, now we got something goin' on here.

---

Wow, I think Tifaria has it down.

what if roger went for vera.... or dastun.................................

Roger/Dastun is actually reasonably popular on the Japanese end of the fandom. I think it's cute, in a very... manly way.

I actually thought that Angel's and Dastun's hatred for Paradigm Corp. would drive them together, especially after Dastun's resignation from the force. What's more interesting, the way Dastun resigned in disgust seems to parallel the way Roger resigned. (Oh, now I've got the Roger/Dastun fans all hot and bothered... Back! Back! Down!)


Vera/Roger would be all a ruse. Vera would manipulate (no pun intended) Roger to get the memories or Paradigm information she needed, and then take him out...and I don't mean on a date! :o After all, he's just another "Paradigm Dog" to her, and she's packing heat... Besides, him dating Angel's "mom" would ruin any chances of a Roger/Angel relationship blooming.

Roger/Dastun would certainly give new meaning to the term "good cop/bad cop"... ;D

Gives the scenario "Hey Roger, hands up assume the position".  O.O This is madness XD.  Or Roger and Alan, Alan likes to play dirty that would have been a human with a cyborg.

Oh nono, it has to be Alex/Alan. Alan is a... very clever man, after all.

Or Beck, for some hot hostage-situation action. Ihaven'twrittenextensivelyonthisoranythingwhatareyoutalkingabout

:o :o :o :o :-[ dear lord...

You've made some interesting observations, this caught my attention because I just read "Walking Together Down the Yellow Brick Road" a Big O radio play posted on Konaka's website. I saw the link on another thread in this forum. Konaka describes this little radio play as the "missing link" between seasons one & two. It really is quite an entertaining little read, it is especially telling in regards to the relationship between Dastun, Roger, Angel, and Dorothy.

I think Final Negotiator is pretty much on point when it comes to Dorothy. In the play she has sort of a fit over memories.


What exactly are those "things" caused within her? Jealousy? Her attachment to Roger? What the play does indicate is that she does feel some part of her is missing, even though she is in fact complete. It's interesting that she mentions that the real Dorothy's thought processes are dominating her functions.


All in all, Dorothy is a tragic character in many respects. Obviously the word "want" is a key (this last quote was copied exactly how it appears on the script). There is certainly an emphasis on Dorothy's desires. Interestingly she mentions that this awareness of her desires was not triggered by Wayneright. She does not want to be alone, obviously and if she does not want to be alone she may certainly desire a partner. Perhaps that is why she almost seems to depend upon Roger.

Dorothy goes to Roger Smith not only seeking protection but, in a way, companionship. She also offers the same to Roger, she sort of becomes the main woman in his life. Certainly the same may be said for Angel, however, Dorothy does reside in his home. It's been said many times but Angel is a whole different type of person, she does not depend on others. Angel may want Roger Smith romantically, but she doesn't feel that she needs him. Despite being an android Dorothy is a much more fragile than Angel is.  Dorothy has never been very resilient when it comes to Roger, and vice-versa. However just because Dorothy and Roger rely one another for companionship does not imply that it is romantic, in the radio play there is a cute little exchange between Roger and Dorothy which Dastun describes as "brother and sister" or something to that effect. Although I personally believe that they are in love or would have been.

I may be wrong (not surprising) but I believe Dorothy is afraid of losing Roger and once again being left alone.

I continue to stand by my previous assertions, and also maintain that angry couples do exist and are canon in other anime: Bulma and Vegeta, to name the most famous one.
War.

I'm so glad you think this--it's exactly what I think! But you know, even if Dorothy was supremely hurt or feeling lost/abandoned, she'd definitely still fight back with all her usual cold wit and detachedness. She does have an appearance to uphold, it seems.

I envy the time you all have on your hands.

Canonically speaking, I'm going to say: neither.

Roger's relationship with Angel is, at first, very superficial. They are attracted to each other physically, because she's a beautiful blonde (also: catsuit), and he's a handsome young buisnessman with a snappy sense of style (also: rich).

Then there's a danger / excitement factor. Angel is a spy, she's sneaky, she's mysterious, she's dangerous. Roger is a negotiator, handling oftentimes hostile situations with ease, he's exciting, and he pilots a giant robot (I'm pretty sure Angel's figured this out very early on).

Later, there's a sense of familiarity: they live very different lives, and yet deal with much of the same things. Searching for answers, trying to fulfill their obligations (*snicker* destiny) in their own worlds.

But really they are very different people, and ultimately there are fundamental problems that would cause any serious relationship between to them fail. I think they both realize that. And, I think that Angel is OK with that and doesn't have any problem going for the short term, but Roger... Ah. Roger, the gentleman, with all his "Ladies Man" b.s. can't bring himself to get involved with Angel when he knows it will never work. He can't bring himself to kiss her, to let any of that building sexual tension actually go anywhere.

At the end of the season two, he tells her that he will always remember the woman who loves herself more than anyone. This is not "I love you". This is "I know you have the power to fulfill that need within yourself, so that you don't need me to do it for you".

---

Roger's relationship with Dorothy is heavily buried in denial. At first, he can't even bring himself to admit she's capable of feeling things like a human being. She's a robot, not human, she can't love.

Later, he denies that he is capable of feeling love for her, reacting so over-the-top at the very idea that it's painfully obvious that he's lying. Ironic that Angel sees it before even he does. As for Dorothy, it's already established in the series how she feels for Roger.

Other's have explained well enough what Roger & Dorothy have going for them-- I don't need to cover that again. But ultimately? I don't believe that Roger would ever be able to overcome his doubts and prejudices and commit to a relationship with the android. His funeral confessions to Dorothy embodies this: even after she's dead, he can't bring himself to admit that he loved her. Instead he skirts the issue and takes whatever regrets he had with him.

Yes, yes, the comment later about mouth to mouth. As a fan I'd like to justify that as a glimmer of hope, but honestly I think that we did get a third season, there would still never be any real resolution between them.

---

As far as fanon is concerned, Roger and Dorothy is one of the few couples that I really, really like and support. Why? Because they really play well off of each other. I love watching them interact, scenes in the series with both Roger and Dorothy are almost always better than with one or the other. Not only that, but they also work well together, complimenting each other rather than conflicting against (whereas with Roger and Angel, I think would conflict more than anything-- not that it can't be sexy conflict, ifyanowhatimean).

And they seem to genuinely care about each other.

I think they would work very well as a romantic couple, in a solid relationship-- if only Roger could get over the android hang up. Fan-wise, it works, canon-wise... not so much.

---

Now I'm going to relieve some of the fangirl naughtiness that's been neglected the last few months. Consider yourselves warned.


I can see it now: fan's brains spontaneously combust due to the sheer hawtness that is AngelxDorothy. Yes, it would be a painful death. But in the end-- worth it.


LET ME PONDER ON THIS.

..... OK.

(But in all serious, no. ... well. Maybe. Hmmmmm.... I think you should write about it.)


YES PLZ.


OR. Or. Alex/Alan/Vera. Amirite??

Although, I can't even really fathom how to set that up. Any combination of two, however, already there.

~J

The stacked blonde and the goth android. I can see this. Someone write a poorly made fanfic with no plot lead in whatsoever and about three or four fancharacters.
War.

my thoughts
Roger/Dorothy having fun in a certain place*coughs*
Dastun/Angel ...So meant for each other...
>>>..<<< Alan/Alex ...yea yaoi! ^_^ (oh lord did i just say that?)
Ok so can someone come up with a girlfriend for Norman?

Norman X That black chick from the dry cleaners

...?

Assuming it didn't already happen. Who knows, the biggest weapon at Norman's disposal might not be a rifle.

Norman = Peter North in 30 years?
War.

um dumb question but whos Peter North?
and yea the dry cleaner lady is a good idea. lol

Here's an idea, Shadowdorothy: Google the name.

Damn it, R. Daniel! Let the person have their blessed ignorance!
War.

Shadowdorothy, it's not worth the mental scars. Just walk away... :)

If anyone, I would say Norman & The flower shop lady. Why?
- Paradigm's a huge city. Why does Roger pick that particular store?
- The flower lady gives Roger a discount right out of the blue. Maybe Norman had some pull?

no way it's gotta be the dress shop lady *really bad Masa doujin joke*

Wow, it sure took me alot of time to find that episode. Everybody said it was the "dry cleaning lady", so I kept looking for that. Fortunately, there was a screen shot of her that directed me to the Heaven's Day episode. Not bad...

heheh
guess we should have called her tailer lady.