City of Amnesia

Neo Dominus Movement

A long time ago, an animated series called the Big O was aired on Cartoon Network's Toonami. Later, it was moved up to Adult Swim's block. This series was very popular with North American audiences, but it was nowhere as well received in Japan. So, Bandai, the parent company of the studio that developed the Big O, opted not to fund a second season.

Negative feedback from fans in North America and other Western countries convinced Cartoon Network/Adult Swim that they should fund a second season themselves, for the sake of increasing their overall profits. So, after a few years, the second season was released; unfortunately, it received mixed reviews and it was judged by Cartoon Network/Adult Swim that they should not pursue a third season, even though they had the option for one in a contract they signed with Bandai/Sunrise.

A pro-third season movement began amongst fans of the Big O, but many pitfalls prevented them from gaining any headway. So, Cartoon Network/Adult Swim had no problems with just letting the show and fans slide into oblivion.

Now, the movement has sputtered and died. But a new one has begun. A darker, more aggressive, but somewhat more reasoned and principled one. From henceforth, all members of the pro-third season movement (Neo Dominus Movement), so long as they consider and are willing to act as members, must boycott Cartoon Network, Adult Swim, and Turner Broadcasting unconditionally and absolutely; with no exceptions. They must then actively use all resources availible, including anime websites and MySpace, to spread the word and to convince other people to do the same as them. They must do this unflichingly and irregardless of what other people say to or about them.

... ... ...

If anyone here really wants a third season, I mean, if you really, really, really want one, then this is the only way it is even slightly possible. It is a principle that explains much of our world: Results only come through genuine effort and sacrifice, but results are results, so through genuine efforts and sacrifice, we may, at the very least, be taken somewhat seriously, and at best, after some struggle, get what we want.

In reality, none of this would cost most of us more than an hour a day and abstinence from certain television programs, but in return we can exercise our will power and actually, at best, obtain something desirable to us, and, at least, get revenge on these companies for refusing to provide a third season after that the ambiguous ending of the second.

... yeah, I don't see that working, or mattering.

They don't care if you watch if you're not a Nielsen viewer.

This post is next to worthless in terms of what it contributes. If you're going to make a statement like that, try to elaborate on it so that it actually means something as opposed to just being a waste of time. I can't believe I spent two seconds reading that. My god, most anime viewers probably don't even know what the Nielson system is, and yet here you mentioning it in such a way as to implicit it is common knowledge.

Or, more politely; can you please expound on your point so that we might better understand it? From what basis are you arguing? I thought the purpose of a network was to expand its viewership for the purpose of increasing the statistics it can present to investors and customers (like people trying to air commercials) at meetings and such, and, if their viewership decreases, their ratings decreases, so their all-important statistics decreases.

If Nielson viewers are all that matters, then why are they trying to promote these channels and websites to the general public? Why are they even accessible to the general public?

Since they are doing all these things, it seems self-evident that your point is mistaken. You ought to have seen the signs earlier and refrained from saying what you just did.

... Anyway, it is my understanding that the Nielson system is being revamped due to inaccuracies.

Also, I don't think it matters whether we are Nielson viewers are not, so long as we recruit enough people and make it clear that our members are following through with it.

Even more specifically, the Turner Broad Casting boycott is workable because most of us don't use Turner Broad Casting services beyond cartoon channels anyway; even if the rest of the companies don't feel it, Cartoon Network, Adult Swim, and Boomerang will, Nielson system or not. And they are what is significant.

"Get revenge"? For CN not funding a Japanese cartoon? This is certainly a great way to show our maturity. There may be a lot of people who like Big O - but it's not massively popular, and even giving a generous estimate, the number of Big O fans who desire a Season III so much as to put this amount of effort into spurning a cable channel and aren't interested in watching anything else from Turner Broadcasting is impressively low, not nearly enough to even make the slightest impact on the ratings.

Bottom line as I see it; the proposed tactic is childish, with little merit, and would be totally futile while serving to form further bias against fans of this anime.

But hey, I can't stop you from trying.

It's immature to stop watching the channel that neglected to pursue the Big O, but gave rise to Robot Chicken and Moral Orel? The people who say it is immature are those who suffer from it. I don't see why their morality applies to unsatisfied customers.

First of all, the difficulty of getting people to boycott Turner Broadcasting on the whole isn't so bad. Most people aren't aware of or visit most networks or websites sponsored by that company. What's difficult is boycotting Adult Swim and Cartoon Network, and they are the only ones that really matter (and Boomerang, I guess).

I don't see what's wrong with trying to get people to stop watcing (and thus endorsing) a channel that churns out progressivley worse shows anyway. So, I don't get watching Adult Swim as though there is no difference between these newer shows and the Big O.

Um...yeah. I personally disliked the entire second season, it was confusing and all-over-the-place, plus the animation was hit or miss.

The show's over. There's not going to be more. Did the ending suck? Yeah. Oh well. Don't obsess over a show that hasn't had any new episodes in 4 years, find something else to watch, there's plenty of good stuff out there.

Like Gurren Lagann. Everyone start posting there now.
War.

You're talking like your opinions are absolutes, and this may come as a shock, but they're not. People watch shows like Robot Chicken, Tom Goes To The Mayor, Metalocalypse, and the others because they do enjoy them just as much as Big O, or even (le gasp) consider Big O to be a perfectly-wrapped package of LAME in comparison.


Apparently I need to see this show.

The Nielson Rating System is common enough knowledge that I shouldn't have to explain it.

Sldo: Internet petitions.  Serious Business.

Ahee. "Irregardless?"

I do wonder when this crusade will end.

A lot of people seem to be under the impression that a season 3 isn't being made because of poor ratings, but this simply is not true.

Big-O got excellent ratings for an anime on both Toonami and Adult Swim. It actually beat most of the other anime shown on Adult Swim when the second season was being shown.


The real reason Adult Swim didn't fund a 3rd season is because they care more about their comedy shows. I know it sounds like another one of those silly "Adult Swim hates anime" arguements, but in this case it's actually true.

For most anime Adult Swim only has to buy the rights to show them. They do not have to cover the entire production cost, which makes them relatively cheap.

Big-O is different. Adult Swim had to cover the entire production cost of the second season of Big-O. This means that Big-O ended up being several times more expensive than most of Adult Swim's other shows. Big-O can easily compete with other anime shown on Adult Swim. However, because Adult Swim has to pay for it's production costs as well, a 3rd season would have had to compete directly with Adult Swim's comedy for their money.

So instead of this sort of competition:
Big-O    vs.    Inuyasha

You get this sort of competition:
Big-O    vs.    Family Guy + Futurama + ATHF + Sealab

Each of those comedy shows cost Adult Swim only a fraction of what it would cost to get new seasons of Big-O. In order to get the needed cash for a 3rd season, Big-O would have had to get ratings better than those comedy shows. It's obvious that no anime could have possibly won in this situation.


In short, Big-O wasn't stopped short because of ratings, it was because it was far too expensive for its own good. Because of it's higher price tag it had to compete with Adult Swim's comedy shows for money, which was a battle it couldn't possibly win.

ATHF and Sealab are cheaper because the animation is shit. How ATHF got its own movie I'll never know.
War.

I think this is a little radical.  To boycott all turner broadcasting completely?  They wont care at all.  We have only so many against all these people.  And besides, I'd like to keep watching Robot Chicken or Family Guy.  They have much more popular programming on against a mixed review series.  The only way we'll be able to do something, is if there's someway to bring Big O into attention.  Right now, Turner is to strong to take head on.

You could tone it down just to Cartoon Network and Adult Swim if you want, since those are the only ones that really matter. It is most definitely a radical suggestion and radical in practice, but radicalism is sometimes necessary to accomplish something. That's not to say that doing this will guarantee us a third season, but viewership is important. After all, Adult Swim proceeds along with its comedy shows because they retain viewership . . . they make no losses by dumping a show like the Big O. Making Big O popular, or remaining loyal to it, by itself isn't enough . . . you have to attack from every direction, so that Adult Swim believes that it is clearly in their economic interest to make a third season.

So, a serious campaign would want to:

1. Send letters and hand-written petitions (to show enduring loyalty).
2. Promote the show on the Internet and at Anime Conventions (to make it more popular, and thus ring in more loyalists).
3. Boycott those responsible for the non-existence of a third season.

So, a three-point attack is what I'm suggesting; all for the purpose of hitting Adult Swim economically.

1 and 2 mean "+" on the dollar sign and 3 means "-" . . . so making a third season means "+" and not making means "-" . . .

. . . Adult Swim is well-established enough of a program, Turner Broad Casting would probably want them to do whatever makes the most money. So, if the fans could convince them it will make them more money to sponsor a third season of the Big O, than that is what will undoubtedly happen.

You have to understand, up until this point, the campaign has focussed exclusively on a "+" approach . . . if you make this, then we give you money . . . however Adult Swim already gets a "+" from what they are doing right now, and a bigger plus than the one Big O fans can offer. However, if Big O fans become "brats" and adopt a "-" strategy in addition to their "+" strategy, then the chances Adult Swim will believe it is economically in their interest to make a third season will go up . . . and if they ever believe it, then it will happen. Such is the law of business and the entertainment industry.

They'll probably just give you the finger and say something like "we won't miss the ten of you"

Lol, well, that's where number 2 comes in. Each of these relies on the others for success.

Ahaha. I'm thinking you're a little closer to the truth there. AS in particular can be notoriously stubborn when their viewership reacts in a way that they don't approve of. I'm thinking of the MASSIVE disapproval over shows like Tom Goes and Assy McGee, to which AS pretty much responded with, "screw all of you, WE think they're funny, so you can just shut up and deal with it."

Of course, more and more I'm beginning to think this thread is all about pure theory and speculation, rather than dedicated to forming a serious plan of action. Which, although I don't particularly see the use in that case, is probably as it should be.

And virtually all the Tom Goes to Mayor haters returned to watching other programs on Adult Swim. Do you think that Adult Swim would keep it cool if people were actually making a point of boycotting their programs and following through with it? Making money is their reason for existing, and they need viewers for that.

Again, number 2 . . . loyal fans would have to stick to their guns while bringing new (and old) ones (back) into the fold and instilling the same desire into them. Maybe hard, maybe not so much . . . I've found Big O fans in the oddest corners of the Internet.

However, the overall reception of this thread was bitterly disappointing, both here and in my private messaging, so I don't really care much to champion the idea anymore. If I can't even get one or two people who want a third season on board, there's no sense in talking seriously about this.

So, not only is it not theory and speculation . . . it is actually a boring joke.

Still, I didn't think it was that hard at a conceptual level.

1. Send letters. Five minutes to write at the most. Easy task.
2. Bring people into the fold while remaing loyal yourself. The hardest. But still doable.
3. Don't watch Adult Swim or Cartoon Network. Actually pretty easy, since it is just asking people not to do something as opposed to asking them to do something but apparently magic is required to pull this one off. 

Did anyone boycott AS entirely because of Tom Goes To The Mayor? I just changed the channel when it came on and turned it back when Robot Chicken or ATHF or something else...funny came on. That's probably what most people did too.

Also each episode of TGTTM probably cost like...$5 to make. So that's probably why they liked it so damn much.

Well, but I think that's the crux of it right there. However much people who want a third season want a third season... they don't want it that much. Although I think many would be quite happy if a third season were to happen, they're not so invested that they want to go to war over it. I'm ambivalent about the existence of a hypothetical third season to begin with, myself, but if it happened, I'd probably think it was pretty neat. But am I so invested that I have any intention of fighting for it? Well, no, not even close.

Perhaps many people think similarly: if it happens, great. But if it doesn't, that's okay too, because it's not a thing they think is necessarily worth fighting for. The responses I've seen have by and large illustrated clearly, I think, the conclusion that fans are willing and more than able to live without season three.

I agree with Xel here. Sure it would be nice to have a season 3, but there are waaay better uses of peoples' time than militantly harassing/boycotting a TV show and making all kinds of plots to get it done.

I don't think my three points are very labor intensitive.

Sure it is. Always telling yourself not to watch this or not to watch that... making yourself not watch some of the things that you want to watch. Sounds like hard work to me.

Perhaps the majority of people would be under that illusion from the initial point, due to the fact they are accustomed to simply going along with their habits, and because Adult Swim would have never seemed as desirable back when they were under no constraints (even if they are just voluntary ones) to not watch it, but getting past the first few days or week, it would get progressively easier. If they thought about it, then they would realize there are plenty other things they can do with their time: Watch the Daily Show/Colbert Report, Engineering an Empire, HBO, ShowTime, or play video/computer games, watch anime/movies, read books/manga. Things like that.

So, the key is just, as Schwartzwalt would say, getting people to think about other options for entertainment. Unless you want to gulf between yourself and the third season of the Big O to expand into oblivion, YOU MUST THINK . . . of other things you can do with your time.

To be honest, I don't think there is anything radical about what I'm saying. Everything I have said is the bare minimum that needs to be done in order to conduct an efficient campaign. Tell them (Adult Swim) you want more? Basic rule. Get other people (old fans) to feel the same way? Another basic. Don't give them (Adult Swim) anything more (of yours) until they do? Again, basic.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: aggressive actions invite aggressive resistance. C.N. is big enough to resist alot, even considering some of the garbage shows they've shown.

If there's any real-life lessons that could have been acquired from watching The Big O, it's to be cordial. Be diplomatic. Establish a dialogue. Unless you're threatened...Then fight like hell! >:(

Respect C.N.'s wishes (ratings -> success -> money). Showing them how The Big O can increase their popularity and also be profitable is the name of the game. Remember, it may be a forward-thinking corporation, but it's still a corporation.

I personally pride myself as being a salesperson's worst nightmare. Why? The sales pitches and hard sells don't work. Now if there's a good product, and a salesperson is polite, then I might buy. Might...

If we focus on C.N.'s welfare, then we might be able to convince them to create a 3rd season.

.The Final Negotiator.

A very persistent one, it would seem.


There's a big practical problem I see with this, however: people won't do it. It doesn't matter how basic it is, it doesn't matter if you shout to the heavens how we're all blind sheep unwilling to think, or anything of the sort. If people simply do not care enough to employ those methods, then it would seem that that's that.


Aheh, I concur. However, I don't feel in the slightest that Adult Swim's persistent refusal to give into the righteously outraged yipping of a handful of anime fans amounts to a threat, in the end. I don't think it reflects well on us at all, to push and push and push and push and devise scheme after scheme until we get our way. Not just as fans, but as, uh, adults? XD Make an effort, sure. But once AS has laid down its unmoving stance (as I feel they have already), I think it behooves us to accept that like reasonable human beings and be glad we fought for it. I just don't see the need to fight to the bitter end. I think it's a waste of time and aggression and energy for something that really doesn't matter that much in the end.

Sounds like weak willed adaption to me. To each their own.

Hee. I'd call it contentment, but I figured you'd say something like that. Then fight on, soldier. :D

True

The only way AS or any other company would even consider a third season, movie, DVD etc. of Big O  is if they felt they could make more money from Big O than they could from anything else.  Right now that possibility is remote.  AS lists the number of hits each program on the AS Fix receives and Big O is near the bottom.  As lousy as AS's comedies are, they have a lot more hits than Big O.    Maybe H. L Mencken was right when he said, "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the tastes of the American public."

Let's not forget however, Cartoon Network doesn't just make money from video and merchandise sales, but from sponsors as well.

What would a sponsor do if you sent them a receipt for one of their products, and honestly stated something like "I saw your product advertised during The Big O on Cartoon Network. I decided to buy it"? They may indeed advertise all over Cartoon Network's lineup, but the only time you saw their ad was during The Big O.

Assuming the sponsor considered you to be an honest person (since it doesn't seem to be the strategy of a fanatical fan), they might consider asking for more ads during The Big O, indirectly encouraging Cartoon Network to show more interest in it. What Cartoon Network will do then is anybody's guess, but at least Big O is earning money for them again. I know, it's all speculation, but this is one factor that we have some control over. Some...

.The Final Negotiator.

Quite a few people sound like Adult Swim apologists. I don't think any of these apologists have successfully explained why Big O fans owe Adult Swim something by continuing to watch their crappy shows while the show we like is shown at 5:00 in the morning (if at all).

We don't owe them anything. Some people just like Robot Chicken and/or Futurama.

Oh, S.D. Some of us just enjoy things that aren't Big O, that's all. In fact, I find that most of these things in life that I enjoy are not Big O.

I can't help but feel that you're really trying hard to shame us into taking up your crusade as our own. Either that or calling us "apologists" is simply the grumbling product of wounded sensibilities--don't get me wrong, this is no attack; merely an observation. Do I appreciate it? No, but it's not as though there's anything I can do about it, save for sharing my view. I will say, though, that I find a lot of your sentiments about this to be rooted in a certain omnipresent, general hostility (but particularly when you don't find that many agree with you), and that this--for myself--only distances me further from your cause.

For whatever it's worth.

I must second this and add that this many years down the road, you to expect a third season of Big O is as likely to happen as me getting an ending to the Homefront Campaign of Roughnecks: The Starship Troopers Chronicles (which was full of godlike win, I might add).
War.

I'm not an apologist, I just like some of other current shows on Cartoon Network besides The Big O. However, I also have no problem voicing which of their programs "suck". In fact, right now I dislike most of their shows because they insist on airing several CN original programs that are lame and way too obviously created on the cheap.

When I wanted to see decent cheap cartoons, the "Cartoon Cartoon" show was the way to go. Now even it's been slighted by their new lineup.

Vegeta, although Big O III is a longshot, I just can't declare it a dead series. Why?
- we still have cathedral radios and 50's jukeboxes, but now they play CD's
- we have emulators that emulate classic arcade games and vintage video game consoles.
- toy stores still have Silly Putty, Nerf (whether it's called Nerf or not), METAL slinkies, scooters,
  skateboards, Transformers (expensive reissues too), Star Wars figures, Hot Wheels/Matchbox cars, and
  Atari consoles.
- many current automobiles have either real chrome or chrome-looking plastic trim
- car buyers can still buy GTO's, Minis, Mustangs, Thunderbirds, Corvettes, Chargers, Rabbits, Beetles or
  (coming 2009) Camaros
- those desiring two-wheel transportation can still buy Vespa or Vespa-like motor scooters
- Hollywood is interested, more than ever, in making movies from classic cartoons, new and classic comics,
  and classic TV shows.

Someone once said "the way to a man's heart is through his stomach" (no, no, not through his ribcage, like some would say... ;D). The way to a company's heart is through it's wallet (or pocketbook, if we're being P.C...although, I'm usually not). When CN, or even someone else, can make money off of Big O again, it will be back.

.The Final Negotiator.

P.S. Couldn't they do an anime Robot Chicken episode with Big O? That's sort of live-action... ???

Roughnecks was popular. We still have sci-fi themed conventions. We use computers. Car companies are making sci-fi looking cars that are experiencing heavy success. Companies designing the first theoretical powered armours still go loosely with ideas presented in sci-fi by the likes of Heinlein and Asimov.

Like I said, you can note all those things. In the end, it doesn't help the cartoon you want a lick.
War.

Yes, you're correct. I guess I see people referring to Big O in AMV's on Youtube (BTW, two more Big O AMV's made it on there in the last few days - I updated my thread) and hear about Cartoon Network teasing Big O fans, and it appears (mirage or otherwise) there is still hope (slight hope) for more "Big O".

At this point, I think Cartoon Network is doing one of two things regarding Big O:

• Tease serious Big O fans until they go underground, stopping the mainstream interest in reviving Big O, and relegating it to occassional rebroadcasts on Adult Swim.
  
• Tease serious Big O fans until they go underground, stopping any "Revive Big O now!" campaigns, and allowing them to choose when (if ever) to create new Big O shows/movies.

Basically, it comes down to "Big O fanatics, go away already!" or "Listen, we'll create new Big O shows/movies when we feel like it." Really, if they want it dead, they should never discuss it with fans (kidding or otherwise) again. I know some overzealous fans annoyed them, and the teasing was CN's way of "getting even", but the teasing is now leading to more fan interest. If they let it go, we'll let it go. (Well alot of us will, anyway...)

.The Final Negotiator.

P.S. It's funny that I mentioned the Camaro. GM got rid of the Camaro, and didn't discuss anything about it until they wanted to bring it back (they took option #2 above). However, they now control when it comes back. Maybe CN just wants control again.

ANOTHER "We need a season 3" thread? I honestly though by now people would have gotten tired of stuff like this, I really did and honestly doubt boycotting AS will matter at all, and I doubt they would even care. Although I admit these threads are indeed worth a good chuckle.

As far as ratings go, like Paul said Season 2 did amazing for an anime, it just boils down to the fact that AS dislikes anime, and would rather make short, and crude comedy shows, although the fact they gave those moron's from Tom Goes to Mayor their own show is enough to merit UN sanctions against AS.

P.S Metalocalypse is mega win.

I hate to admit it but AS is highly unlikely to make a third season of Big O.  Compare the number of hits for Big O or any of the other anime series versus the number of hits for AS comedy series.  The comedies get more hits than do the animes.  Even Assy Mc Gee gets more hits than Big O.

Gack!  Never underestimate the taste of the viewing public.

Yep, I'm afraid so. Nah, with all the boring stuff on AS, we find free time to do other things, like complain about Big O.
Most of us aren't into boycotting AS, and no, networks as large as them usually don't care. I only laugh at the ones who "shout it from their rooftops", but yeah I find those posts humorous, too! However, I respect the rational arguments of the rest of the fans here.


Metalocalypse is GIGA win. Yeah, but TV networks are a fickle bunch. They go from sitcoms, dramas, lawyer shows, cop shows, doctor shows, action shows... Now they're getting into some SciFi (Ghost Whisperer, Lost, and The Bionic Woman, etc.)... Now suppose AS decides to "go serious" again some day?  ??? I'm not encouraging more discussion about this. Just food for thought...

.The Final Negotiator.

P.S. UN sanctions against AS? R. Daniel, why didn't we think of this angle? *gets out stationery, writes feverishly* Just kidding, folks... Hey, lighten up, it's Friday... ;D