City of Amnesia

Hi there.

I'm currently rewatching Big O and am noticing a lot of things I didn't see on previous viewings. So far it's three main things.

1) In Winter Night Phantom what is the situation with Doston and that woman from the black and white film?

2) In "Enemy is Another Big" at the end Dorothy goes to the room that Angel had phoned Roger from earlier in the episode. What was going on here?

(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2426/vlcsnap115835wz0.png) (http://imageshack.us)

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(http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/1378/vlcsnap117632oq1.png) (http://imageshack.us)

3) In "R.D." while cleaning Roger's living room near to the beginning of the episode Dorothy discovers a cigarette just like in "Enemy is Another Big" (the previous episode). Is this implying that Angel has been making secret visits?

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Many thanks

The first one with Dastun takes a bit of explaining... and still it's a big mystery.

The last two however are simpler to figure out... those scenes just emphasize Dorothy's distrust of Angel (and that the audience shouldn't trust her either).


... getting back to Dastun and Sybil Rowan (the Winter Night Phantom). The first episode of this little plot (WNP) shows us a truer more natural and authentic version of Dastun, one which we've yet to see so far in the series. He suddenly gets these flashes of Memories which show Sybil and an officer in a movie. At the end of the episode Dastun and the Phantom pretty much reenact by coincidence the ending of the movie. They seem to share a common bond (held by them being in each other's Memories) and by how they are in terms carrying out their duties (Dastun's an MP, Sybil ...?)

It's revealed in SeasonII that the Memories are perhaps more twisted than anyone could think possible. The movie is seen playing in a theater with "Dan Dastun and Sybil Rowan" starring. Dastun rushed into the theater and finds what can only be guessed as his childhood self and his childhood girlfriend sitting in the theater alone.

What does it all mean? I think it means that there's more to Paradigm City than meets the eye.

Thanks for the response.


Do you believe the implication to be though (in the case of the second one) that Angel has been coming undercover to the mansion? It's never implied that she met with Roger again there after her visit as Casey Jenkins. If so she's a pretty lousy spy, leaving cigarettes on the floor.

That reminds me that in that episode Roger wakes up after having a nightmare and see's a figure in the red cloak jumping off the side of his building. I assumed that was R.D but I suppose it could have been angel.

I don't think Angel felt any need to hide any meetings with Roger.  Perhaps hide them from Alex, but there's not much reason to hide the fact you were somewhere when you were overtly visiting the owner of the facility.

And if she was there without Roger's knowledge, she shouldn't be smoking in his rudding living room.

agreed. however I always thought that the "hidden" cigrette meant that Angel had been spying on Roger to a short extent.

This whole thread brings interesting thoughts into my head like... does Angel spy on him when he's showering, dancing to Hip to Be Square or something?

Has anyone noticed that Angel almost never seems to finish a cigarette?

She always either gets rid of it early or is interrupted by something, like when Roger questions why she is smoking when they are trapped underwater.

Not sure if it means anything, just something I noticed.

She doesn't finish her meal, either, when she's on her "date" with Roger.  If I recall correctly, he notices this too, but it's been a while since I've watched the show.  I would guess that it's a way of hinting towards something being Not Quite Right with Angel, i.e. her being not human.  Or maybe it doesn't mean anything, there's no telling. 

I just rewatched ep 22 and it's clearly shown that Angel can enter the mansion without being let in by Norman. The fact she does it so nonchalantly suggests she'd done it before as well, seeing as how she'd intended to talk with Roger (rather than spy) but didn't bother to knock.

I wonder why she'd done it previously though

Also were the flowers Roger bought intended for her?

You have just committed murder of a most foul nature. The English language has been with us for centuries, and you go and, in a single post, completely disembowel, rape, and defile the poor mutilated corpse of the English language, leaving tattered scraps dangling to the wind.

God have mercy on your soul, for I shan't. I have held in my opinion on this long enough in favor of being polite, but I can no longer hold back when witness to brutal literary homicide. I pray Shakespeare rises from his grave and beats you to death with the remnants of his second favorite bed.
War.

Quoted for truth and emphasis.

And I know I shouldn't even respond to such a ludicrous comment (which seems to have disappeared anyway), but seriously?  Did we watch the same show?  I will never understand people who try to characterize Angel as a slut or a whore.  Please cite some evidence for your outrageous accusation.  Also, I just mentioned her not eating a few posts ago.  It's got nothing to do with her having an eating disorder. 

The flowers, meanwhile, have been a topic of much debate, though I personally believe they were intended for Angel.   

Haha seriously! I feel like they're watching a totally different show. In no way is Angel a slut or whore, she's just doing her job and has the role of femme fatale(watch more old school movies and you'll see most femme fatales are like that, shadowdorothy). Also, just because she wears a tight jumpsuit does not mean anything besides she needs some to work in and something to prove that she has a sexy body(while not being slutty). I would know-- I'm into fashion and women like wearing what makes their body look nice.

Nor does she have an eating disorder. She's too curvalicious for that! Maybe she just works out a lot and eats small portions? Jeez.

Is she technically a femme fatale?

She doesn't really seem to cause any harm.

I guess those flowers must have been for Angel. If they'd been for Dorothy he would have given them all to her instead of just one. That's kind of selfish of Roger though. I mean, he's still trying to "get with" her even though she almost let Dorothy be destroyed.

Maybe not femme fatale per se, but I'm pretty sure that's what kind of character they wanted from her. The mysterious woman with the troubled past, etc. etc.

Also I've just noticed that at the beginning of ep23 Dorothy tries to tell Roger something about Angel and then says that she told a lie to Norman.

Angel acts like a femme fatale, but she's not really.  At first she sneaks around spying and trying to use Roger for her own gain, but I think it becomes clear by the halfway point of the series that it's all an act.  She's a better person than everyone gives her credit for.   

He's trying to apologize to Angel, not "get with" her.  By this point he's made up his mind about the two women, even if he's still denying it.  The flowers are (in my opinion, mind you) a flimsy way of trying to apologize to Angel for what happened on the beach. 

 

If I recall correctly, she means that she lied about talking to someone when Angel was in the house. 

Okay, I just finished the series.

So did paradigm city ever exist?

The million dollar question ^

Although, really, most of us old timers have really moved beyond asking any questions about anything: what happened happened.

The only thing that still gets me is Dastun, the whole movie theater thing, crashing and all that. Though I've essentially come to the same conclusion that there wasn't a reason for it, the people in charge of making the show just did whatever seemed cool at the time.

It's always fun to think about the mysterious elements, though...

When Dorothy visited Roger's apratment (somehow keeping a sevret from Dorothy) she was not spying on Roger. I will leave it to your imagination to figure out what she and Roger were doing alone, in case you are of innocent years may I suugest they palyed checkers together?

Angel certianly does do harm--she erases the enitre fabric of the universe after all.

The whole red ballon thing--the release of the red ballon is a messianic sign. That is why she says its too soon at the beggining of the second season when she sees a red ballon flying up from the crowd (yes, that statment could as well refer to the Union attacking too soon with the three robots, but that is jsut a co-incidence without meaning), but it wasn't the right red balloon. Since she is both the creator and destroyer of the universe she knows the schedule according to which its history proceeds and the meaning of even the msot insignficant events.

As confusing as it sounds, Paradigm City exists as surely as the Matrix does (although no red pill). In fact, also similar to the Matrix, Paradigm City has actually existed many times, although it's two most recent periods of existence seem the most significant, both to PC's inhabitants ("tomatoes"), and to Angel (Paradigm City's "Architect" of sorts, only cooler). Of course we can only speculate what happened in it's most recent "existence" (with Angel and Dorothy standing side by side watching Roger drive away).

Although, I'm left with one question, too. The Angel watching the TV screens, what is her city called? New York, as some have speculated, or is it also Paradigm City?

Not ALL the inhabitants are the "precious tomatoes." Remember, Gordon Rosewater was only producing clones for Paradigm City's senators, and for himself as well.


I don't see a reason for why the name would change. Roger also still refers to Paradigm City as Paradigm City, in his final line.


This was so silly I couldn't ignore it. Reading way too deeply into something very simple.

[Ignore the man behind the curtain.]

OK, I'll admit I may have overstepped my bounds in saying that all of PC were "precious tomatoes". However, I still have to wonder if they were still "ordinary tomatoes", because I'm not convinced that the other PC inhabitants besides R. Dorothy, R-D, and two other important individuals from Act 15 and Act 26, are just well-programmed, well-disguised androids, and that's taking into account the number of almost perfect Roger androids made. However, the androids theory would explain how that one officer could survive the ordeal of that protest gone wrong.


Well, maybe it's me, but it appeared to me that the Angel watching the TV screens was outside of the "reset-able" PC, like when a computer operator runs a simulation. Of course, now that I think of it, that does make her different from "the Architect" of the Matrix, who is always inside the Matrix.


Wait, didn't she release the first ballon? Thinking about it now, if she released the balloon after she said "it's too soon..." maybe she was sending her balloon as a "STOP!" message to The Union. With The Big O, one finds it increasingly difficult to ignore the men and/or women behind the curtain... 8)

Wait, do people still think Roger was an android or that the scene in question wasn't just symbolism?

I don't think there's a distinction between "ordinary" or "precious." I just said "precious" for the heck of it, because that's what Gordon called the clones at one point. As for the image of the androids, I'm going to have to agree with Hobo and the vets. Whatever it was, it definitely wasn't the truth.


Seems to me that it's just a case of somebody improbably escaping death. Happens all the time in anime and comics, as I'm sure you've noticed.


Matrix comparisons automatically make me want to roll my eyes. Regardless of whether she's inside PC like the Architect was in the Matrix, or whether she's outside PC unlike the Architect and the Matrix, I think she'd call Paradigm City, "Paradigm City."

We know that she went to basement level 666. I guess it's up to you to decide whether that counts as being in PC or not, but it seems kinda moot.


It wasn't clear that she did it on purpose. You could also interpret it as her being unsettled by the explosion, and then forgetting about the balloon as she went into deep thought. Angel had bigger concerns on her mind than being the Union's flag-bearer.

Angel actually went below Level 666. That was simply the most prominent number displayed.