City of Amnesia

I think this is a question which has been danced around numerous times, but never really addressed head-on (apply directly to the forehead!).

Just about everyone is aware the first season intro was based on Queen's "Flash Gordon", and somewhere on PCF it was mentioned that the Respect theme in season2 was based on another old series' intro. I've also recently found connection between another set of music with the soundtrack of Big O....
-- A few of the songs in the 2nd OST are/could-be based on passages from Pink Floyd's "Atom Mother Heart". In particular: "Dreadful" and it's variations
-- The epic "Stand A Chance" and "The Holy" (screw "The Holy-Remix") are based musically on the End Titles of "Blade Runner" by Vangelis. There are less synthesized soundFX in "Stand a Chance", but musically they are amazingly similar.

There are also many other references, motifs, and such in the series itself which parallel ideas, books, and other series in the Science fiction genre. I think it was Asimov that created the use of "R. ######" to represent an android ("Robot"). Then there is the obvious connection to the Batman series. And all-throughout the first season (and some of the 2nd) is the attention to techniques used in classic Film Noir... the use of shadows, internal monologue, etc. Taking a look back at the soundtrack from Season1 will reveal many classic detective-like tracks which compliment these aspects quite effectively.


I've heard a number of people in the past claim that Big O steals from other series, and thus isn't a good series because of it. Personally, I beg to differ. Combining elements from so many good series, and executing them correctly, is what makes Big O a good series... not a bad one.

There is DEFINITELY an Asimov influence on the robots. I think they even said there were 3 rules.
The overall art direction was very Batman: The Animated Series-like, which is a good thing, because that show rocked socks for like 10 years.

As far as the big robots go, I think it was inspired by Mazinger Z and those kinds of super-robot shows.

Flattery is the sincerist form of imitation?




And lets not forget how similar the new Big O theme from the DVDs is to that one Kinks song...


... ok, not that similar, but its close thematically, or something.

It wasn't "3 Laws of Robotics" persay... but Dastun did shout "Androids can't kill humans!" at R. Freddie a couple of times in Act19 "Eyewitness". Which, if you think about it, has been proven untrue due to R.D. ...which makes you wonder if there are any laws governing androids in Paradigm to begin with.

Also something about not supposed to be able to lie in Greatest Villain.

I personally liked the theme, yeah. Though as I understood it, they made constant reference to Asimov's Laws of Robotics.

Also, the old man who was really an android. Bicentennial Man!
War.

The themes are a strength. All the way. I think it brings a welcome sense of nostalgia from old time things into present world entertainment. Also, it helps set the unique mood of the series. And especialy that I like most of the nods to pop culture.

I think that it doesn't matter.  Then again, I almost failed Film Study for not thinking "in-depth" enough about what directors tried to say with the length of the pauses in music.

This sounds like a class made of epic fail.
War.

Ah, I was waiting for this thread to pop up. I would have started it myself, but then I realized that I hadn't watched Big o in a while and had forgotten the references that I noticed.

Yeah, the only one I ever truly remember is the Big O theme parodying Flash Gordon.
War.

I try to remeber all of the refrences.  I find it interesting. And just for laughs, my younger brother acualy thought Sunrise acualy hires Freddie Mercury to sing the Season one theme! LOL ;D

That would have made this the greatest show of all time ever.

That would have been an amazing feat, considering Freddie Mercury is, you know, dead.
War.

So? They put Sir Lawrence Olivier in Sky Captain.

Point taken.
War.

A strength, but I feel it just as easily could have been a weakness. Mostly I think what makes the main difference is not only the execution, but the sheer amount and depth of references. If they had been stretched too thin, if they had only referenced things from the sixties and cut out the references to philosophy, or the allusions to romantic era written works, or the classical music, or... Well, I could go one. It strikes a careful balance, avoiding being a ripoff of any one thing, while still managing to be it's own story, instead of being more than just a cobbling together of various tropes. It manages to be it's own work while being a gateway to many great works of the past. Which I can't see as anything but a strength.

It's Batman with mecha. That's the gist of it.
War.

YOU FAIL.

It's more than that. It also has Jesus.

Lol, and he can somehow speak japanese.

I think the overall combination of the references made a good strength as the combination of awesome elements like batman like themes with mecha, film noir, little red riding hood (and jesus lol) made something new and sort of unique, it's a bit like making a new cake, you get the coco pops and put them around the icing of a chocolate mud cake to make a yummy chocolate crunchy cake. You can't say it's a rip off of a chocolate crackle and you can't say it stole off the idea of a mud cake. No one would care and it would sell for a good price and be totally worth it (like big O!

Wow, ok, there seems to be a little missconception of Christ's role in Big-O. First, when Rosewater mention that Heaven's Day was nothing more than  Christ's Birth, he was just showing a memory. Second, the whole double dose of Religeon pumped into the second season was just to make it more Apopcoliptical. Acualy, the megadeuses being "the sacred chariots of mankind" and "the power of God Created by man" was this, they were sacred because no one can just buy megadeuses left and right, inless you are Beck because he controled Dorothy 2, Beck the Great RX3, and his signature robot...the Beck Victory Deluxe. Second, the megadeuses are called the powe of God created by man because as you can tell, the Paradigm Corporation dosen't have relly that much defence, except for some tanks, the megadeuses are the only thing that can relly have a major effect when causing destruction. And third, there can't really be a third season. Because if you put the pieces togeather, the Big-O is acualy a long movie directed by Angel and procuced and Stars Roger Smith and Co Stars Dorothy. The Amnesia was created because a movie got intelegence to wonder about a prequel and what happened before the film. And the whole bar code thing-Bar Code is translated into binary and Binary is the same stuff that DVD players read. So if you want a seaquel, it would have to be that the characters in the film find out what happens in the REAL WORLD. And besides, if there is a religeous theme in Big-O, the Roman Catholic Church would be complaining by now. And sorry if offend anyone with that message, but I am Catholic too and the Church dose get upset with such work. And besides, they did this with heavy metal music, and they got lots of power. So all in all, it is just another reffrence to pop culture to films in the seventies and Eighties about Christianity being wrong, wich is an original Idea from grail myths and first used in Horror films in John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness (PDM).

You sir, have just lost me. ...and I've made some whooper theories in my time.

Ok, in the last episode, there are little flashes of Angel sitting infront of some tv monitors with tears crawling down her face , and Roger and Dorothy standing behind her. Those monitors are showing the last moments of the episode! So it would be safe to hypothisise that this is just one big movie. And the book Metropolis or whatever it is called is the script for the Big-O wich the director, Angel, made. But some how angel wrote the script as this-what if a movie with fictional charachters with no past wonder about the past. And no matter how much they discover, the truth will never be discovered and just like how the second season ended, the series keeps repeating itself.

We decided that interpretation was really lame, because it meant that nothing that happened in the show actually meant anything.

Or, as I believe Lady Tesser so eloquently put it, 'Big O is Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead.'

While it is a perfect valid interpretation, and I think there's a good deal of touching on that idea within the series, the problem is that the end itself. While Roger does redo his intro from the beginning, things have clearly changed in this world, as indicated by Angel and Dorothy standing together. If this interpretation were correct, then everything would be completely rewound because the characters are nothing more than stumbling cardboard men, attempting to figure out the world of the play and always failing because the play is already written and they can do nothing more. I think it's more of a 'All the worlds a stage, but that doesn't mean every audition is the same,' type dealio.

So does Batman.
War.

Fix'd

Incidentally, "Its the day God's son was born" seems to be one of the bits we get in season 1 about Alex's God Complex, and not really in support or against any of the later religious overtones.


At least, that's the way I see it.

Of course, how could I miss that?
War.

Hey, talking about refrences to Big O, who liked Giant Robo? Or another refence Testujin 28?

I picked up the OVA set for cheap (fifteen bucks), but I haven't gotten a chance to sit down and watch it yet.

Yeah, i've watched it but i haven't seen the ending yet cus i can;t buy it anywhere in oz. I'm trying to get it from the library but they haven't ordered it in yet.

I haven't seen anything Giant Robo yet, but what about the other two original Gods of the Japanese robot genere, Astro Boy and get the fruns ready....bum bum bumbum bum bum bumbum GIGANTOR (Tesutjin 28). I saw Testujin 28 black and white cartoon from the 50's(?) on Adult Swim and saw accouple of episodes, and it was verry cheesy BUT IT HAS LOTS OF POTENTIAL. And I heard they made a movie and a second season wich was not connected to the original black and white show. Gigantor and Big-O team up...In the words of Cartman.."SWEET."

Wait, Gigantor and Big O team up? What are you rambling on about now, Duo Enthusiast?
War.

One, sorry for the absence, but due to me being back in school, I can't update every day, due to my need for sleep. But someone redesign Gigantor and have him be along side of Big-O. Realy. Think about it. Heck, what if the plot said something like this...

Gigantor, the oldest form of Giant Robot before the invention of megadeuses come sback online by a ghost and helps big-o defeat an enemy.

If anyone wants to use that plot, go ahead. I think that would be good. But everyone has their own opinion.

Wasn't Gigantor...a lot smaller than Big O?
And controlled by some guy with a remote control far away?

Right on both counts, there, Mike. Really... don't waste your time on the show. Age does not make all things better.
War.

Well, I liked it. And what of Giant Robo?????

I can see that, easily. Also, Alex just kinda came off as a spoiled child in those last couple episodes. Maybe I started to feel sorry for him...


Nah! :D

By the way, Giant Robo kicks ass.

Oh, forgot about the topic: The references are definitely a strength, from the obvious tribute to one of the incredible band of the '80s, to all the subtle nuances in story, character and setting, and even the animation reminiscent of "Batman: The Animated Series" and Film Noir.

Well, I could say the black/hero (Roger) vs. white/villian (Alex) is a juxtaposed reference to vintage action/adventure movies. In those movies, the hero wore white and the villian wore black. So, since the hero in Big O wears black (with style), the villian must wear white. Each has a color-coordinated megadeus.
However, I'm not sure what Big Duo's color symbolizes... What's interesting is that Alan Gabriel's suit is black and white, which could reflect his double agent persona.

Also, while researching the "Who did Roger buy the bouquet for?" question for another thread, I think I found another reference. It was from the scene where Roger is dining with Alex and Alan. One of Alan's lines to Roger...I don't remember it exactly. Basically, it started with "If you've lost the will to live..." and ended in a propositiion to kill Roger "...and your little android, too".

Now I've heard somewhere before that Dorothy's namesake was Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz. One of the most famous/infamous lines the Wizard of Oz is the threat from the Wicked Witch of the West to Dorothy: "I'll get you, My Pretty...and you're little dog too!" <evil laughing, thunder, fire, and smoke>. Even to this day, that scene still gives me the creeps. :o Is Alan's line another reference to this film? Maybe...

It also was creepy, but not as much as the WofO scene - most likely because Roger's reaction was anger, not fear, as he contemplated "putting Alan in his place" again...

.The Final Negotiator.

This is...pretty much what got me to watch it when it first came on, so yeah

Another essay i could write. I don't believe that anything is truley origional, as we all have to find inspiration from somewhere, so the references are inevitable. Oh, and the way you worded the poll lacks respect for inuyasha fans. we're not all morons who have closed our eyes to all but a silver haired red-clad half demon. Love you, bai!

Some philosophical, historical, and pop cultural influences on the Big O:

- Plato's Theory of Recollection.

- Plato's Theory of Forms.

- Plato's Allegory of the Cave.

- Descartes' Cartesian Theater.

- Nietzsche's Eternal Reoccurrence

- Kierkegaard's "crowd" and Nietzsche's "herd"

- Ancient Greek City States.

- 1920-30's culture in the United States . . . and possibly Germany?

- Metropolis (classic Science Fiction movie)

- Isaac Asimov's stories concerning robots

- The Batman.

- Giant Robo and other retro-mecha anime.

- Pretty much the entire genre of film noir.

- Maybe Neon Genesis Evangelion, but I think that is just a coincidence due to the fact they both make use of existential themes, are mecha, etc. Chiaki J. Konaka has had to live in the shadow of Evangelion ever since he made Serial Experiments Lain after Neon Genesis Evangelion. I think he just likes existentialsm, and isn't trying to emulate Evangelion per se.

I'm not sure if the Big O embodies 1920-30's German/United States culture or if that is just a result of the fact it is based on film noir and Metropolis (German movie), but I think the scenery is representational enough of those time periods to warrant mention . . . likewise, I'm not sure if Ancient Greek City States were an influence on the hierarchical structure of Paradigm City, or if that is just an appearance brought on by the fact it was influenced by Plato, who wrote about the nature of a city-state in "Republic". At any rate, Paradigm City is a city-state, Ancient Greece is the most prominent demonstrator of these, and Chiaki J. Konaka certainly knew about them . . . everything after that is conjecture.

So few people seem to mention the movie Blade Runner as an influence. The first season of The Big O not long after Bubblegum Crisis: Tokyo 2040 was finished (BR references were everywhere in the original BGC). It may not be huge, but I think some of the thoughts on human/android relations, particularly those involving what makes one human, as well as the entire concept of "Memories," now that I think about it.

I've never heard of Blade Runner, so that probably explains why I've never counted it as an influence.

Well, I have heard and watched some of the vampire movies in the Blade Runner series, but that seems distinct from what your talking about.

Never heard of Blade Runner and vampires...

Do you mean Blade?

Blade Runner (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083658/) is a cyberpunk movie made back in '82, starring Harrison Ford, directed by Ridley Scott, and featuring one of the best narrations ever put to film. Seriously awesome movie.

Don't quite know what 'cyberpunk' is, and am sure Dick did not either (or Scott most likely either). It is a science fiction movie.

The horrible narration was imposed on the film by studio hacks after the project was taken away from Scott. Fortunately he was able to have his own version released on DVD, without the narration, the tacked on happy ending, etc.

The best film narration is in the Magnificent Ambersons (another project butchered by the studio), or A Clockwork Orange.

Now you're on to something, though the reading of Platonism is heavily Gnosticized. Look for me to post on this extensively over the next few weeks (with far more closely argued interpretations than I used to psot at paradigmn city.

Someone needs to discuss this that knows Oriental culture better. But I believe white is associated in the Orient with funerals, death, mourning,etc., just as black is in the West.

Anebo for the love of f$#&ing GOD, EDIT YOUR DAMN POSTS! DON'T POST 5 IN A ROW! >:(



Also, Blade Runner was epic, and a cult masterpiece. Now gtfo :P

You know, I forgot about that, and I that's after two of my anthropology courses covered Chinese culture. Of course, that was several years ago... Very good, Anebo. Everyone sees what they want to see. You see white and Chinese culture's interpretation... I see vintage movies in Western Culture (Big O has several Western Culture references)... As far as I'm concerned, neither of our opinions is wrong, they're just different. I'm sure your aware of the term "ethnocentrism" in anthropology (one's culture shaping what one believes is correct or proper). Differences in opinion are just differences in opinion.

Several vintage movies have white/black symbolism. In fact even, Star Wars has this symbolism. (Luke, Annakin wear white at first, and dress darker as they approach the dark side of the force; all the Sith's wear black; Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and Yoda dress in lighter shades. Rebel ships/troops are usually white, while the empire's ships/machines are darker; stormtroopers wear white because they were created for "good", but turned evil; etc.) However, General Grievous's white form may be a reference to Chinese culture and death. I think I remember an action movie (possibly Jacky Chan) where the villian wore white. Nine, can you help me out on this one?

Update: Confirmed. It was "Rush Hour" with Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker...

In a nutshell, Blade Runner is a futuristic story of a lone police officer hunting down a small group of synthetic humans that have developed dangerous personality defects. Frequently, the movie questions whether technology could ever recreate the human psyche or just emulate it. Of course, this question is left open at the end of the movie...

Cyberpunk stories emphasize human enhancement through technology (including advanced prosthetics, a large global Internet-like network, people's personalities indirectly/directly linked to the network, and people interacting with the network via virtual reality). You'll find references to cyberpunk in The Matrix and Ghost in the Shell. However, I don't know if cyberpunk stories touch on the subject of robots, androids, and synthetic humans.

While replying to messages, you will see previous posts below your edit window. Click on the "Insert Quote" feature (upper right corner of each post below the edit window) to quote that particular message. This will allow you to quote as many messages as you want in your reply.

Finally, I found what may be a very cool reference in Big O. I've heard that Paradigm City was based on Manhattan. According to this website, a project was once proposed in the mid 60's, where Manhattan would be covered with a dome:
http://www.waltlockley.com/manhattandome/manhattandome.htm

Sometimes the best fiction can be created from one asking "What if?". Perhaps Konaka saw an article about this project, and asked "What if?"? Welcome to Paradigm City...

.The Final Negotiator.

I've been in contact with Konaka and will convey his thoughts on Bif 0's symbolism as well as a more sysytematic interpretation of some of it from my own view point, but with the pressures of work, don't look for it much before Chrsitmas.

Did they really have a character called 'General Grievous'? If you hadn't said it was form the original, I would have thought it from the Southpark version and he was the commander of Major Disarray.

Paradigm City is built over Manhatten. Konanka has said so publically; you can see it in the show whenever they show a map; Big Fau emerges through the middle of Washington Square, if I'm not mistaken.

White represents death in Islam, as well. I always assumed the color reference was middle-eastern, because his Magna-Guards look like Bedouins.


AMAZING FIND! Love it.


You didn't go see the prequel movies? Failures they may be, but they've still got great action and sci-fi designs.

TPM is one of those movies that got better after you watch the sequels. People (including me) were expecting some huge blowout when all it did was introduce the characters. Yeah kind of a waste of a movie, but I don't hate it as much as I did when it first came out.

As far as the domes go, they kind of reminded me of that abortion of a Final Fantasy movie from a few years ago.

I couldn't get past the Neo-nazi Wizard of Oz ending of the first one. I advise readers to rend Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress instead.

... what? How did you get THAT out of a bunch of floppy-eared Jar-Jars?

Hmmmn. This was a point of contention between me and Scion of Destiny awhile back. There is merit to some of Plato's concepts being played with, but I felt that his heavy handed interpretation was extrapolated. It felt to me as if he were trying to make the facts fit the philosophy, and was ignoring other, stronger references. It seems to me that Big O was more heavily grounded in early romantic literature, and the philosophy of those times. While at best the concepts of Plato are played around with, romantic works are actively referenced and even quoted. And even then the philosophers of that era seemed to have something of a hero worship for the Greek philosophers and culture and actively referenced them, which is where the use of Platoism could have emerged. Though, I find it unlikely that Konaka hasn't read Plato. So maybe we're both right.

I am talking about the end of the first film (1977 was it?) never having seen any of the others. It showed the principle characters being decorated at a fascist ralley complete with neo-Speerian red banners all over the place.

The philosophy of the Romantics was indeed a form of Neoplatonism. Could you expand, however, on what specifically you see in the show linked to Romanticism?

Oh, the Triumph of the Will thing. I think around 90% of people who saw that never thought of it being fascist. I never even knew that it was taken from a Nazi propaganda movie until a little while ago.

I think a lot of movies have borrowed that. It's a cool "yay let's congratulate the heroes on winning" scene.

I’m hardly responsible for the ignorance of the mass viewing audience.

Steven Spielberg, however, is.

One might think that manipulating the unsuspecting audience’s emotions by using Nazi propaganda techniques (especially in an atmosphere already thick with fascist motifs such as the heroic use of will to overcome the otherwise invincible, insidious power of the enemy conceived of as pure evil—and one could go on) might be considered, well… evil.

Spielberg...Lucas...Same differnce.

Look again. There were no banners.


Oh great, we've got another S.D. on our hands.

Mike is right. You're thinking way too far into this. The Nazis didn't invent award ceremonies, or invent hanging banners at award ceremonies. As for "Triumph of the Will," Leni Riefenstahl merely found a compelling angle for filming award ceremonies. Are you calling a camera angle fascist?

As for "the heroic use of will to overcome insidious evil," the fascists sure as hell didn't invent that, either. That sounds like, well, any epic involving a hero. You might as well say "The Odyssey" is evil. Odysseus used smarts and will to overcome insidious enemies--Odysseus is a Nazi superman!

I see a lot of big words and fancy concepts in your posts, but you seem to be ignoring some very basic stuff. I suspect you've just been wanting to flaunt the fact that you're "above" watching the "Star Wars" movies.

I may be misremebering since I haven't seen it in more than 30 years; perhaps the banners were edited out in the re-release?

What is an S.D.? (Sicherheitdienst?)

You have to look at the whole context of the film. Besides the point I addressed in the earlier comment, you have this whole pseud-mystical 'force thing' (just the thing the anhnenerbe would have been wild for), then the obsession with blood lines (from what I know of the later development of the plot) and breeding to create luke the super jedi (borrowed, from Dune I realize, but still...). Doens't the overarching plot invovle a small cabal of merchants conspiring to take over the empire using the insidious power of the darkside of the force to corrupt the superior arsitocratic and warrior classes ? Didn't that remind you of the Jewish conspiriacy outlined, for instance in Judd Suess? When I was recently reading Ecco's reminiscence of the fascist literature he had to read in scool as a child in the Mysterious Flame of Queen Loana, I was actually reminded of the whole Luke character (such as there is of it) and hsi desperate heroics.

I do consider Star Wars a waste of time (not that wasting time isn't sometimes a necessary release--hence these posts), because it was so awful in its writing and in some many other ways. But I do insist that it is built on a superstrucutre of crypto-fascist symbolism--I understand Lucas acknowleges Campbell as his main source, so there you go. Odysseus, incidentlally, does rely on his cleverness rather than on an overwhelming display of violence, he was mostly helpless without the help of the Gods, and if he ultimately suceeds it is a sucess balanced by failure (the loss of his whole contingent, for instance), these are hardly fascisitic traits.

I'm sorry I used words and concepts you considered big and fancy. In future posts can I use words like concatenation or concepts like intertexuality, or will it give you a headache?

Being smart and having an opinion is no reason to be an asshole, unless you're me. Next case, there is no such thing as Luke the Super Jedi. He was Luke, the Last of the Jedi. The overarching plot of the prequel series did not involve merchants trying to take over. It was about Palpatine actually being the controlling force behind both factions at war. That's what made it interesting, because you could see that no matter who won, Palpatine's Empire would still form. The pseudo-mystical Force? Look again. Most of that concept is based on Christianity for the concept and simple fantasy magic for the application. R. Daniel is right, you read way too much into this.
War.

I don't know who Campbell is, but as far as I know (and I know far, far more about SW than any sane person should) Lucas was inspired by old Flash Gordon serials from the 40s, samurai movies, especially The Seven Samurai, and old WWII movies. During production, shots of airplanes fighting over a river/bridge were used as placeholders for the Death Star dogfight.

And I don't know why you mentioned Spielberg. He is friends with The Flanneled One, but he didn't have a whole ton to do with the movie.
It seems like it's really, really a stretch to call the whole movie a Nazi allegory from just one scene...just a couple shots really. In the Nazi movie it was a huge party rally, in SW it was a "yay these guys just prevented our asses from getting blown up, let's give them medals" thing.

As for Spielberg, see above.

Doesn't decosntruction teach us that it is impossible to read too much into anything?

Campbell is Joseph Campbell, ths popualrizing mythographer.

Well, they did work together on Indiana Jones, which had someone fighting Nazis. Maybe that was just to throw us off... gasp! Star Wars is actually Nazi indoctrination propaganda! Hide the children! For the love of God, don't let them near the Ewoks...

Deconstructionism? Never had a high opinion of it. Like the constant comparison of The Lord of the Rings and World War II. Like the author himself said, there IS no comparison. LotR is just a book series about a fantastic adventure. Nothing more.
War.

Actually, the birth of Luke (and Leia) had not been planned, as Padme's pregancy would have called to attention her and Anakin Skywalker's secret marriage. Early Jedi were encouraged to focus on their art, not marriage and progeny... (Oh, my I used a big word...) By the way, the Trade Federation had no interest in the force, and even feared their own Sith ally's use of the dark side of the force. Jedi were heavily chastised for even thinking of using the force to conquer...

The only fascists were The Empire, and this was made VERY obvious (down to the stormtrooper/guard/Darth Vader's helmets). If I wanted, I could compare the pomp and circumstance of the parade/ceremony at the end of Star Wars EP 1 with parts of The Nutcracker...

As far as I'm concerned, the Nazi's copied the traditions of many other conquerers, because, like other conquerers, they thought they had the divine right to conquer the world. Obviously, in their case, they were mistaken. It's like Sadam wearing the red turban, because Nostradamus said a man with such a turban would start World War III. Op. Desert Storm wiped out Sadam's forces in the blink of an eye...

strcat(output, substring); ?   Go right ahead... However, you may not use "intertexuality" as it is the misspelling of "intertextual"...and shame on you for making me have to look that one up. :)

Vocabulary should create bridges not walls...

OK...you admitted that you only saw the original movie, so don't go and analyze the other ones if you've never seen them.

The plot, if you want to do them in story order not production order, is this:
Palpatine is both a Senator, and a dark side Sith who wants to rule the galaxy. He puts a ridiculously complex plan into motion where he plays both sides of a small war against each other to get himself elected president. Then he does basically the same thing, except on a galactic scale, to get himself more and more powers until he has turned the democratic Republic into the Empire. Although nobody knew he was actually the leader of both sides, fans could tell pretty easily. Oh yeah, he's also the BAD GUY.
Anakin was a really powerful Jedi who Palpatine put his sights on to turn over to the dark side, and he did, lots of bad stuff happened, but the last remaining Jedi figured they could use Anakin's kids to make things right. cue the original trilogy.


And please, don't insult our intelligence. You haven't been here that long, and we don't all have phD's in philosophy.

Most prominently references to William Blake, mostly from Schwarzwald: The painting on the back of the pamphlets he distributes, which is one of Blakes etchings. A few direct quotes from “The Marriage of Heaven and Hell.” As well as quoting from Leviathan, by Thomas Hobbs. As well, the whole Big Venus/Big Lucifer/Angel thing and her being presented as largely sympathetic cannot help but remind me of the heroic presentation of Satan in Paradise lost.

The design of the Paradigm building is completely ripped from one of the paintings that were inspired by the Divine Comedy. I think it may be La commedia illumina Firenze ("The Comedy Illuminating Florence"), but I can’t be certain.
 
That’s all I can remember off the top of my head. There’s probably more.


This just in: every children’s story ever is really FACIST PROPOGANDA!

Dude. If you don’t like Star Wars just say you don’t like Star Wars. Being a fellow pretentious asshole, I can attest acting in this manner rarely makes you popular to anyone (except maybe other pretentious assholes, and that's assuming you don't get into a big "my penis brain is bigger than yours!" pissing contest).

... I'm sorry I stumbled in here.

Excuse me while I back out of this thread, quietly.

Sorry, Big Money, now where was I?

Oh, Big O abounds in references to traditional Western theater (including some of the gadgetry), which was derived from Theatre of ancient Greece (including some of the gadgetry):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_theatre

-Paradigm City and the surrounding desert as one huge movie set, large enough to contain it's own weather.
-The "movie set" used to film/record Angel's childhood memories hearkens back to traditional stage shows.
-A megadeus was a "deux ex machina" (or contrived solution) to solve crises (ex. city attacks). Not that there's
 anything wrong with that... :) However, there was another deux ex machina: Angel. She even gets her own
 powerful megadeus that destroys and recreates, not unlike some accounts of the Hindu diety Shiva. She puts
 everything back to normal. Because it's a contrived solution, it peaks our interest ("Hmm, I never saw that
 coming..."), but it also leaves you with a "Huh?" feeling because it shouldn't normally have gone down the way
 it did.
- I've heard many comparisons to the Truman show, but while I can say Angel was the engineer and/or producer, there were not enough details to label her as the director. Make no mistake, though, the Paradigm City residents were held captive by the surrounding deserts, just like Truman was blocked by roadblocks and a torrential sea on the sea-side of his town. The Union members did live out there, but desired the comfort of the city. The corporeal Schwarzwald died in the desert, though his soul remained.

OK, I'll take a break, so everyone (including me) can untwist their gray matter. (Yes, even us posters get headaches posting this stuff. But hey, if encourages fun conversation, it's worth it...)

The "world" of Big O embodies Shakespeare's famous quote:

Quote from Shakespeare on ?:

.The Final Negotiator.

Of course Shakespeare gets it from Epictetus (Enchr. 17):

Remember that you are an actor in a play of such a sort as the playwright wishes;
if he wishes it to be short, it is short; if long, it is long. If he wishes that you play a
beggar, [it is] in order that you play gracefully even this role. And this is such [whether
your role is that] of a cripple, of a ruler, or of a layman. For it is your task to play finely
the part given to you, but to pick out that part is another's.

I don't quite see the references to stage machinery as oppsoed to the stage in general. could you elaborate?

By the way, the phrase you want is 'deus ex machina.'

The appearance of Big Venus at the end is certainly a deus ex machina in the most literal sense (and the reference behind it is perhaps Venus as creatrix in Lucretius), but I have toruble with the idea of Megadeus entirely being derived from that term. Could you clarify?

I've often thought the reading one ought to take of Anglels aritifical childhood is that modern people don't so much have a childhood as watch one on tv.

(ps I'm glad to be back to the topic at hand too)

After some thought, the megadeus as deus ex machina wasn't constant throughout all episodes. (BTW, thanks for the correction - sometimes the fingers outrun the mind, y'know?)  I was toying with a theory put forth by someone else, where crises in each episode would eventually be resolved with a robot battle. However, this theory fails when one considers that Roger stopped Instro, Big Fau (in his first appearance), and Big Venus without firing a shot. Really, I think the name Megadeus comes from their resemblance to idols of ancient dieties. This fits, since megadeus can be literally translated as "great god".

However, Big O did play "deus..." a couple times: 1) Act 13, where he bursts through the ground to defeat R.D. seconds before she can assassinate Roger. 2) Act 23, where he punches through the wall of the already-trashed Smith mansion, preventing spider-like robot attackers from harming Norman and Dorothy.

Now that I think of it, Angel AND Dorothy both get to play "deus...". Dorothy's turn was when she linked to Big O, enabling the "Final Stage" weapon, and providing the only apparent opportunity to defeat Alex (that is, before Big Venus' appearance).

Konaka even plays with this idea. Vera activates Behemoth as a surprising final attempt by the Union to attack Paradigm city, but her "deus..." is counteracted by another "deus...", falling debris from the stage rigging, that just happens to be above the spot where Behemoth is unearthed. (Big O, didn't defeat Behemoth, he only "incapacitated" it.)

As for the stage machinery, the stage lighting is the easy one. There's also the hidden tunnels used by Roger, Big O, Schartzwald, and the Archetype; and Big Fau's trap door under the "Washington Arch" of Paradigm City. Finally, we've got the gears/shafts underneath the city, which I think are analogous to the lifts used in modern stages.

I look at Angel's "childhood" as conveying the message "No one truly has a 'fairy tale' childhood."

I wondered why they associated Venus, goddess of love, with rebirth? Your's sounds like a plausible theory.

.The Final Negotiator.

P.S. There might be an off-hand Cowboy Beebop reference: Dorothy finds "Pierrot" the kitten in "Lost Cat". Cowboy Bebop had an episode "Pierrot Le Fou", which just happened to feature a giant robot, too.