The references in Big O...

[EyeOfPain]

Never heard of Blade Runner and vampires...

Do you mean Blade?

Blade Runner is a cyberpunk movie made back in '82, starring Harrison Ford, directed by Ridley Scott, and featuring one of the best narrations ever put to film. Seriously awesome movie.

[Anebo]

....

Blade Runner is a cyberpunk movie made back in '82, starring Harrison Ford, directed by Ridley Scott, and featuring one of the best narrations ever put to film. Seriously awesome movie.

Don't quite know what 'cyberpunk' is, and am sure Dick did not either (or Scott most likely either). It is a science fiction movie.

The horrible narration was imposed on the film by studio hacks after the project was taken away from Scott. Fortunately he was able to have his own version released on DVD, without the narration, the tacked on happy ending, etc.

The best film narration is in the Magnificent Ambersons (another project butchered by the studio), or A Clockwork Orange.

[Anebo]

Some philosophical, historical, and pop cultural influences on the Big O:

- Plato's Theory of Recollection.

- Plato's Theory of Forms.

- Plato's Allegory of the Cave.

- Descartes' Cartesian Theater.

...

Now you're on to something, though the reading of Platonism is heavily Gnosticized. Look for me to post on this extensively over the next few weeks (with far more closely argued interpretations than I used to psot at paradigmn city.

[Anebo]

Well, I could say the black/hero (Roger) vs. white/villian (Alex) is a juxtaposed reference to vintage action/adventure movies. In those movies, the hero wore white and the villian wore black. So, since the hero in Big O wears black (with style), the villian must wear white. Each has a color-coordinated megadeus.
However, I'm not sure what Big Duo's color symbolizes... What's interesting is that Alan Gabriel's suit is black and white, which could reflect his double agent persona.

Someone needs to discuss this that knows Oriental culture better. But I believe white is associated in the Orient with funerals, death, mourning,etc., just as black is in the West.

[Professor Vogler]

Anebo for the love of f$#&ing GOD, EDIT YOUR DAMN POSTS! DON'T POST 5 IN A ROW!



Also, Blade Runner was epic, and a cult masterpiece. Now gtfo

[The Final Negotiator]

Someone needs to discuss this that knows Oriental culture better. But I believe white is associated in the Orient with funerals, death, mourning,etc., just as black is in the West.

You know, I forgot about that, and I that's after two of my anthropology courses covered Chinese culture. Of course, that was several years ago... Very good, Anebo. Everyone sees what they want to see. You see white and Chinese culture's interpretation... I see vintage movies in Western Culture (Big O has several Western Culture references)... As far as I'm concerned, neither of our opinions is wrong, they're just different. I'm sure your aware of the term "ethnocentrism" in anthropology (one's culture shaping what one believes is correct or proper). Differences in opinion are just differences in opinion.

Several vintage movies have white/black symbolism. In fact even, Star Wars has this symbolism. (Luke, Annakin wear white at first, and dress darker as they approach the dark side of the force; all the Sith's wear black; Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and Yoda dress in lighter shades. Rebel ships/troops are usually white, while the empire's ships/machines are darker; stormtroopers wear white because they were created for "good", but turned evil; etc.) However, General Grievous's white form may be a reference to Chinese culture and death. I think I remember an action movie (possibly Jacky Chan) where the villian wore white. Nine, can you help me out on this one?

Update: Confirmed. It was "Rush Hour" with Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker...

In a nutshell, Blade Runner is a futuristic story of a lone police officer hunting down a small group of synthetic humans that have developed dangerous personality defects. Frequently, the movie questions whether technology could ever recreate the human psyche or just emulate it. Of course, this question is left open at the end of the movie...

Cyberpunk stories emphasize human enhancement through technology (including advanced prosthetics, a large global Internet-like network, people's personalities indirectly/directly linked to the network, and people interacting with the network via virtual reality). You'll find references to cyberpunk in The Matrix and Ghost in the Shell. However, I don't know if cyberpunk stories touch on the subject of robots, androids, and synthetic humans.

While replying to messages, you will see previous posts below your edit window. Click on the "Insert Quote" feature (upper right corner of each post below the edit window) to quote that particular message. This will allow you to quote as many messages as you want in your reply.

Finally, I found what may be a very cool reference in Big O. I've heard that Paradigm City was based on Manhattan. According to this website, a project was once proposed in the mid 60's, where Manhattan would be covered with a dome:
http://www.waltlockley.com/manhattandome/manhattandome.htm

Sometimes the best fiction can be created from one asking "What if?". Perhaps Konaka saw an article about this project, and asked "What if?"? Welcome to Paradigm City...

.The Final Negotiator.

[Anebo]

Someone needs to discuss this that knows Oriental culture better. But I believe white is associated in the Orient with funerals, death, mourning,etc., just as black is in the West.

...General Grievous's white form may be a reference to Chinese culture and death...


Finally, I found what may be a very cool reference in Big O. I've heard that Paradigm City was based on Manhattan. According to this website, a project was once proposed in the mid 60's, where Manhattan would be covered with a dome:
http://www.waltlockley.com/manhattandome/manhattandome.htm

...

I've been in contact with Konaka and will convey his thoughts on Bif 0's symbolism as well as a more sysytematic interpretation of some of it from my own view point, but with the pressures of work, don't look for it much before Chrsitmas.

Did they really have a character called 'General Grievous'? If you hadn't said it was form the original, I would have thought it from the Southpark version and he was the commander of Major Disarray.

Paradigm City is built over Manhatten. Konanka has said so publically; you can see it in the show whenever they show a map; Big Fau emerges through the middle of Washington Square, if I'm not mistaken.

[R. Daniel 01]

...General Grievous's white form may be a reference to Chinese culture and death...

White represents death in Islam, as well. I always assumed the color reference was middle-eastern, because his Magna-Guards look like Bedouins.

Finally, I found what may be a very cool reference in Big O. I've heard that Paradigm City was based on Manhattan. According to this website, a project was once proposed in the mid 60's, where Manhattan would be covered with a dome:
http://www.waltlockley.com/manhattandome/manhattandome.htm
...

AMAZING FIND! Love it.

Did they really have a character called 'General Grievous'? If you hadn't said it was form the original, I would have thought it from the Southpark version and he was the commander of Major Disarray.

You didn't go see the prequel movies? Failures they may be, but they've still got great action and sci-fi designs.

[Mike]

TPM is one of those movies that got better after you watch the sequels. People (including me) were expecting some huge blowout when all it did was introduce the characters. Yeah kind of a waste of a movie, but I don't hate it as much as I did when it first came out.

As far as the domes go, they kind of reminded me of that abortion of a Final Fantasy movie from a few years ago.

[Anebo]

...General Grievous's white form may be a reference to Chinese culture and death...

White represents death in Islam, as well. I always assumed the color reference was middle-eastern, because his Magna-Guards look like Bedouins.

Finally, I found what may be a very cool reference in Big O. I've heard that Paradigm City was based on Manhattan. According to this website, a project was once proposed in the mid 60's, where Manhattan would be covered with a dome:
http://www.waltlockley.com/manhattandome/manhattandome.htm
...

AMAZING FIND! Love it.

Did they really have a character called 'General Grievous'? If you hadn't said it was form the original, I would have thought it from the Southpark version and he was the commander of Major Disarray.

You didn't go see the prequel movies? Failures they may be, but they've still got great action and sci-fi designs.

I couldn't get past the Neo-nazi Wizard of Oz ending of the first one. I advise readers to rend Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress instead.

[R. Daniel 01]

I couldn't get past the Neo-nazi Wizard of Oz ending of the first one. I advise readers to rend Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress instead.

... what? How did you get THAT out of a bunch of floppy-eared Jar-Jars?

[The Ghost Of Ember]

Some philosophical, historical, and pop cultural influences on the Big O:

- Plato's Theory of Recollection.

- Plato's Theory of Forms.

- Plato's Allegory of the Cave.

- Descartes' Cartesian Theater.

...

Now you're on to something, though the reading of Platonism is heavily Gnosticized. Look for me to post on this extensively over the next few weeks (with far more closely argued interpretations than I used to psot at paradigmn city.

Hmmmn. This was a point of contention between me and Scion of Destiny awhile back. There is merit to some of Plato's concepts being played with, but I felt that his heavy handed interpretation was extrapolated. It felt to me as if he were trying to make the facts fit the philosophy, and was ignoring other, stronger references. It seems to me that Big O was more heavily grounded in early romantic literature, and the philosophy of those times. While at best the concepts of Plato are played around with, romantic works are actively referenced and even quoted. And even then the philosophers of that era seemed to have something of a hero worship for the Greek philosophers and culture and actively referenced them, which is where the use of Platoism could have emerged. Though, I find it unlikely that Konaka hasn't read Plato. So maybe we're both right.

[Anebo]

I couldn't get past the Neo-nazi Wizard of Oz ending of the first one. I advise readers to rend Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress instead.

... what? How did you get THAT out of a bunch of floppy-eared Jar-Jars?

I am talking about the end of the first film (1977 was it?) never having seen any of the others. It showed the principle characters being decorated at a fascist ralley complete with neo-Speerian red banners all over the place.

[Anebo]

Some philosophical, historical, and pop cultural influences on the Big O:

- Plato's Theory of Recollection.

- Plato's Theory of Forms.

- Plato's Allegory of the Cave.

- Descartes' Cartesian Theater.

...

Now you're on to something, though the reading of Platonism is heavily Gnosticized. Look for me to post on this extensively over the next few weeks (with far more closely argued interpretations than I used to psot at paradigmn city.

Hmmmn. This was a point of contention between me and Scion of Destiny awhile back. There is merit to some of Plato's concepts being played with, but I felt that his heavy handed interpretation was extrapolated. It felt to me as if he were trying to make the facts fit the philosophy, and was ignoring other, stronger references. It seems to me that Big O was more heavily grounded in early romantic literature, and the philosophy of those times. While at best the concepts of Plato are played around with, romantic works are actively referenced and even quoted. And even then the philosophers of that era seemed to have something of a hero worship for the Greek philosophers and culture and actively referenced them, which is where the use of Platoism could have emerged. Though, I find it unlikely that Konaka hasn't read Plato. So maybe we're both right.

The philosophy of the Romantics was indeed a form of Neoplatonism. Could you expand, however, on what specifically you see in the show linked to Romanticism?

[Mike]

Oh, the Triumph of the Will thing. I think around 90% of people who saw that never thought of it being fascist. I never even knew that it was taken from a Nazi propaganda movie until a little while ago.

I think a lot of movies have borrowed that. It's a cool "yay let's congratulate the heroes on winning" scene.