Uncanny Valley?

[Yuko-san]

So I just heard of this term and wondered if it really is true.

Uncanny Valley is, well this.
It seems a lot of people, real or not, are actually fazed by this. When I say not real I mean Roger. If you think on it his first response to Dorothy being a robot was to tease/ criticize her incessantly. In fact it wasn't until a later part of season 2 that his relentless teasing and criticizing stopped. Angel, Alan and various other characters seem to suffer from this effect. The only ones in the anime not fazed are the ones responsible for Dorothy's up keep (Her father, Soldano and Norman) or those similar in race to her (Instro, Freddy and the one robot senator I can't remember the name of). But can it really be true? Can people really be scared of what is so similar to themselves?

I was reading this article when I found the term. But I'm not scared, fazed or otherwise by this stuff. In fact it makes me rather excited to see robots and humans closing the gap, at least realistic looking wise. I'm not sure it doesn't have something to do with my wanting to be a robotic engineer or if it's because since I was a child I have been exposed to robots, if not in real life then in cartoons and the video games I play.

Now I realize that sharp, being the crazed internet person he is, more then likely does suffer from this. But do other people really think that the closer to robots we get the further from humanity we are? I can't possibly think of a reason for this. I know on one end of the spectrum there is the terminator theory. The closer we get to technology the more likely it will kill us. But I'm calling BS on that right now. If you don't teach a computer to do something it can't do it, simple as that. You tell a computer to find a cooking recipe it does it, but it will not come back with a bomb recipe, unless that is what you googled.

On the complete opposite end of the spectrum is humans becoming true overlords. Meaning the closer to technology we get the more likely we are to be part of it. Instead of robots killing us we are the robots. Or we gain longer lives through the use of technology.


Discuss the implications of this. Both real and otherwise. Starting now.

[Professor Vogler]

I'm gonna be "that guy"... why post this in the Mecha Anime section? Better place for it would be general discussion since it's not about anime but a real world philosophy.

[Randolf]

Move'd.

Actually, the Uncanny Valley seems to be a pretty normal human reaction; there's a kind of Lovecraftian bent to it, in that the human mind and emotions respond poorly to things which intellectually should not exist-- the apex of this would be what appears for all purposes to be a human body, but which is not alive, and yet has locomotion and is capable of calculated response to stimuli. In other words, a humanoid robot registers about the same as a zombie overall-- it looks human, and though it's not living, it moves. That fucks pretty hard with cognitive solidarity.

As for robots not killing us... I can't say that's certain either, but it's definitely possible. The whole point of advanced robotics is to design a machine that can think for itself and make it's own decisions based on criteria. You can include failsafes to prevent it from doing any of the things that might harm a human, but that could drastically limit the range of things the robot can actually do; part of the idea is to make them not submissive pantywaists that defer to us at every point. Also, I can't imagine a surgical robot being very successful if it has been programmed not to harm humans; it has to cut flesh, probe and often excise organs in order to preserve life. Naturally, it just has to know the difference between a diseased organ and a healthy one, and not to attempt to remove these organs unless the subject is actually anesthetized on an operating table with the necessary life support.

I could probably go on, but it's frickin' cold in here and my arthritis is acting up.

Also, Sharp is already gone; he sees the metallic skulls grinning at him, wielding bloody chainsaws behind every Burger King drive-thru window in America. His house stands in the Uncanny Valley, wreathed in electric fence and surplus Vietnam-era land mines, an MG42 aimed out the front window through broken panes.

[Sharpshooter005]

Now I realize that sharp, being the crazed internet person he is, more then likely does suffer from this. But do other people really think that the closer to robots we get the further from humanity we are? I can't possibly think of a reason for this. I know on one end of the spectrum there is the terminator theory. The closer we get to technology the more likely it will kill us

The fear is if you invented a machine in the 'image' for lack of a better term of man, as in sentience, it could easily realize "Oh hey I have all the benefits without the drawbacks of a biological organism, who the hell needs my creators."

Basically the fear of sentient artificial intelligence boils down to it having the advantages and characteristics of man, but with none of the drawbacks of how we can die like at the drop of a pin.

For similar reasons I also would be freaked out if aliens ever showed up, because looking at history when a technologically advanced civilization meets another one it never ends well for the natives. (If we're going all "sci-fi threats to the survival of humanity" then may as well throw in an earth vs the flying saucers scenario)

[Yuko-san]

Surgical robots are controlled by humans. And as much as I would like that most robots gain sainitince(fuck if I can spell this word with a headache) I would prefer that surgical robots do not gain sanitince, ever.

Actually you can teach a robot not to harm. But if you only show it a target it doesn't see a human as a target. Been proven with a child robot programmed to shoot a toy bow and arrow. When a human came near it it didn't shoot. It just stood there. So if a robot can be taught to shoot a target and not a human what makes it hard to program not to shoot all people? May have typed this wrong.

Then again I'm not afraid of the zombies either. That is what a weapon is for. And did it ever occur to us humans that if a robot attacks weapons come in pretty damn handy? In fact we can use weapons for the exact same thing in both cases. No matter how much I love robots if one turns on me it's all for me and no life for it. Don't care how much you teach it, I guarantee it will be surprised by the Luger in my bra, and the knife in my shoe.

That is if I had a Luger. But I defiantly have a knife.

[Sharpshooter005]

Yeah but was william tellbot aware of its own existence to the point where it started having existential thoughts about its nature and interrelation with man. Cause thats generally the crux of that hypothetical.

How about sentience but they're all wired with some kind of kill-switch they can't bypass, or that they're unaware of. Like a hidden subroutine where all you need to do is yell "klatuu barada nikto" and bam game over.

[Yuko-san]

I thought the kill phrase was "divide by zero" or "Can God make a sandwich so big even he couldn't finish it?"

Actually the second phrase would work better. If you tell a robot to divide by zero it knows it's a trick. But the God's sandwich question would make it hard for them to do anything, as they will have to contemplate God, biblical references and a butt load of other stuff.

[The Final Negotiator]

I thought the kill phrase was "divide by zero" or "Can God make a sandwich so big even he couldn't finish it?"

Actually the second phrase would work better. If you tell a robot to divide by zero it knows it's a trick. But the God's sandwich question would make it hard for them to do anything, as they will have to contemplate God, biblical references and a butt load of other stuff.

Ah, but that would depend on the programmer. If this "exception" is unhandled, it may cause a fatal error, which may cause an OS crash (unlikely) or an OS reboot (more likely). The delay would give you enough time to put a few bullets/rounds into it. No knife attacks, though, unless in the base of the "skull"... You see it messes up their aiming circuits and...um...Ah, heck with it! Fire at will!

I've always been fascinated with computers and robots - my first computer was a Sinclair ZX-80 kit (unfortunately, already assembled). However, I had a fear of anything more human than C3PO up until high school, until I did a report on robots.

In my resources, I saw real and sci-fi robots, and mentions of feelings (emotions) and bravery (in battle). At that point, you see robots as just another being just trying to make it through life, and responsible cybernetics being a way to help seriously injured people to live normal lives. If you have a heart, you put away your fears and just accept it...

Sharp, robot's can die in the drop of a pin. Part wear/defects (even lithium ion battery packs). Plus sun spots, cosmic radiation, irregularities in the magnetosphere, etc. Some of the causes of robots going rogue in sci-fi could also potentially cause permanent failure (ex. Short Circuit - No. 5 - lightning).

Just tell teach them it's "no malfunction", they're "alive", they "need input", and "disassembling" is wrong... :-)

As far as us being overlords of technology, did anyone read Asimov's "Last Question"? Interesting take on the idea...

Oh, and as for aliens, I'd suppose they'd throw a collar and leash on me, place food and water bowls in front of me, hand the leash to the cat, and head out. Just kidding... I'm sure they'll say how impressed they are with broadcast Earth tunes. (However, no iTunes, or we're talking interstellar war...)

[The Final Negotiator]

On a side note, I wanted to kiss my electric power shovel this morning for quickly digging through snow that would have taken an hour with a regular snow shovel (about 4-5 inches, on a driveway about 3 car-lengths long X 2 car-lengths wide). Given the circumstances, is that so wrong?!? 

[Yuko-san]

On a side note, I wanted to kiss my electric power shovel this morning for quickly digging through snow that would have taken an hour with a regular snow shovel (about 4-5 inches, on a driveway about 3 car-lengths long X 2 car-lengths wide). Given the circumstances, is that so wrong?!? 

Not unless you try to french it. However if you are frenching it then hope your wife doesn't see you.
I kiss my plusies though. So it can't be that weird.

[EyeOfPain]

Just tell teach them it's "no malfunction", they're "alive", they "need input", and "disassembling" is wrong... :-)

Speaking of Short Circuit...

[The Final Negotiator]

Dude, that's awesome...Ahem *cough*... I mean that would really facilitate the public acceptance of robotic technology (...yeah, still awesome news...)

[Sharpshooter005]

Oh boy, the director is the same cinematic luminary who brought us such gems as "are we done yet" and "dr. dolittle 2"

..Aaaaand the writers only real credits are episodes of robot chicken, a show which has its moments but is 99% "LOL REMEMBER THE 1980S". Though I guess that makes sense since apparently thats the entire process for greenlighting this sort of thing.

So yeah I'm sure this will be spectacular.

[Randolf]

http://www.cracked.com/article_18867_5-creepy-ways-humans-are-plunging-into-uncanny-valley.html

[Sharpshooter005]

I like how not one, but two of those are about weeaboos/japanese trying to convert themselves into lovecraftian abominations that I'm pretty sure can only be defeated through fire and reciting latin out of an archaic tome.