City of Amnesia

Ugh. It's not until October that the 1.5 GitS graphic novel comes out, so let's talk about random Ghost stuff sos I won't get all depressed-like.

So I've seen this show like 4 times, had no idea what was going on, but it was pretty badass.

Me, too. (insert anime emoticon here) Thank god they intentionally made it multi-tiered so you could still enjoy it without needing to understand all the political mumbo jumbo! Somehow, I managed to know enough to write an eleven page paper about it...

Watching all of the DVD extras and reading all the side notes makes a little easier to understand. But it's really all of the complicated elements that make it such a great series.

Um, I know Stand Alone Complex is mutli-layered and well, complex, but I never found it to be too complicated and confusing to follow as far as the plotline, story, philosophy and politics are concerned. Its pretty simple when you get down to it actually. Then again, I've taped and watched the series over so many times, I know it better than your own back hand. For the love of Kuze, I need to get the DVD and check those out even though I have this article by Kamiyama where he goes into detail on 2nd GIG anyway.

Also, I watched Solid State Society recently and I was going to rant about some of the aspects I didn't like about it (technical wise and all, >_>) but I'll do that another time.

Thank you for making the GITS (uber?) thread though, Mistress!
Peace.

I remember one episode where there were like 500 of those spider tank things with the childlike AI running around causing mischief. That was pretty cool.

The funny thing is, that's like every episode that they are in.
Peace.

I saw that one movie from a long time ago before this show was made, and then I saw like, three episodes of this show. It was somewhere between alright and pretty good on my quality scale. The guy with the goofy eyes is cool >.>.

They call him Mr. Batou!

Oh, and the first Ghost in the Shell is alright but in many ways, the SAC series transcends it incredibly.
Peace.

The movie was really cool, and also from like 1988.
The show seemed like it wasn't so heavy with the philosophical stuff.

Nah, unfortunately (at least, for me anyway).

I think it delved a lot more on the technological aspects of the beginning process of cyberization. I really don't remember that much about it; except that the Puppet Master fused in Motoko's AI and they became a whole new being and that the VA for the Major was godawful.
Peace.

Yeah, that's basically it in a nutshell. Motoko got her ass kicked by this tank, and was supposed to have died for real, but she was given a child's robot body because that was all that was on hand and her mind had fused with the Puppet Master. I don't remember exactly, I saw it a really long time ago.

Both of the movies are kinda whooooaaaaaaa.  :o  While I don't think Oshii did a bad job, the term "muddy" definitely comes to mind. With SAC, Kamiyama was able to deftly walk the line of the philosophy and the technology aspects of GitS. (I also think it helps that he's so young.)  I certainly dig the way more digestible cop show formula, as well as the focus on the characters. In that way, it closely mirrors the manga, which while is most similar to SAC, is really an entire entity on its own.

Ultimately, however, I believe that they all work together to help contribute to the making of the world of Ghost.


I guess I'm just a little slow with these sort of things. ^^;; I think I understand too much of it subconsciously. I'm all like, "Dude! Ghost totally jives with me, although I don't entirely know why or how..."


The whole melding of consciousnesses thing-- not only in the instance of the movie, but every time throughout GitS-- carries a lot of extra meaning that is difficult to pick up on right away. It stands by Eastern beliefs like that of nirvana, where one transcends beyond one's body and individuality to become part of a single, greater being. That isn't so big a thing in Western culture.

Even so, I can't help but be utterly convinced that someday, all the events in Ghost will become possible, and that humans really may transcend via the Net...


It was my duty, comrade!  ;D

The dub on the first just made me want to find the nearest living thing and kill it in the most brutal, sick, absolutely warped way possible and then deface the corpse somehow. And I really dont even care about dubbing for the most part.

That one though

Actually, in the manga, it was a very feminine boy's body, leading the Major to make snide commentary toward Batou.
War.

My experience with GITS is mostly limited to Stand Alone Complex, which I've seen the first season twice now and about half of the second one. I've seen bits and pieces of the original movie, but usually something got in the way of me actually seeing it all the way through. I keep saying I need to rent it and the second one, but well, it never ends up happening.

As far as the series goes though, I've enjoyed it. It's never evoked any level of *Squeee~* fannishness though. One thing I really do like about it is that it examines the technological future it presents with neither a 'Science is Great!' or 'Technology is Evil!' that are the common downfalls of Sci-Fi. Instead it shows both the advantages and problems with a sort of rude indifference. Not inherently good or bad, just there. Which is truer to life, in my opinion.

One thing that does bother me about it is while I like the characters of Motoko, Togusa, and Batou, I sometimes feel that the other members of Section Nine are underdeveloped.

Any hopes for a third season?

You know, that's a good question. Ghost in the Shell was an exceedingly popular show, a third season would be quite profitable, I'm sure.
War.

In the Mitsuhisa Ishikawa (founder of Production I.G.) interview extra on the SSS special edition DVD, he said it depends a lot on how well the American audience receives SSS.

That seems to be the way it is with many animes nowadays. The Japanese parent companies and studios are really beginning to realize how much of an audience there is overseas. Ghost in the Shell, in particular, has enjoyed a soft spot in the hearts of American anime fans ever since the movie came out. It would be great to see  our influence help create more SAC.

True enough, and if that's the case then I can most certainly see a third season becoming reality.
War.

I guess I'll do this now;

There was one scene in Solid State where Section 9 (Togusa, Batou, Proto, Boma and Ishikawa) where talking about the kidnapping of children in the first detail of the Puppetmaster case they were working on. Now for example, when they would have two members talking (lets say Ishikawa and Proto here), they would have both members in the frame and they would have one talking, giving intel on what they knew about the case. But then as soon as they were done talking and the other character in the same frame would start talking, the camera would shift slightly up to them. I hated that very much. I didn't even notice it before until I watched the movie again, but that really hurts the cinematography of that scene itself. When the camera moves to the character that is talking, it renders the other completely nullified and it makes or forces the viewer to focus solely on the one talking and not anything else in the frame. That's manipulation and I'm not down with that, something that annoys me very much with 90% of Spielberg's pictures. I know its a lot of influence from Orson Welles, Francis Coppola and Russian filmmakers but just keep the camera still and let the viewer decide themselves what to focus on in the frame.

That was pretty much the biggest offense to me in Solid State Society. Other things were the acting of the characters. One would say something and the other character would just stand there doing nothing with a blank expression on their faces. I know its GITS, but something, anything needs to be done when someone else is talking to you. The other thing is, Togusa and his wife have the worse chemistry I've ever seen in anime (not regarding stuff like Evangelion I guess). Its like he just tolerates her basically and he's so cold to her. It almost reminds me of Elizabeth Taylor and Paul Newman's relationship in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, except with no flair and no Taylor and Newman period. I think if the daughter wasn't there anyway, I would probably have no idea that Togusa and his wife were married in the least.

That's my rant basically. Even with all this, I still think Solid State is a helluva a movie. There was one scene late in where Section 9 breaks into the faculty where the children are being kept and they are going through all those robots. In that scene, there's one shot where Motoko and Batou are pointing guns at each other after Batou and Tachikoma just went through a steel door and on Motoko's side there's a yellow-greensish palette and on Batou's side its white and the two colors meet in the middle between them. That alone is one of the best shots I've ever seen in any form of motion pictures. Just the use of the colors alone was damn amazing.

Also Mistress if you see this post, do you know the name of the song that was playing in the beginning of the movie where Motoko is listening in to the current situation and she's standing on some tall structure near the waterfront. If so, please tell because I really want that piece.
Peace.

It's called 'Zero signal' if i find a link to it i'll post it.

Huh. This Solid State Society movie seems unfamiliar to me, and I thought I'd followed all the GitS stuff. What kind of setting is it? The old movie GitS or SAC GitS?
War.

Uhhh... Stand Alone Complex. It takes place two years after 2nd Gig.

Oh look, the dub of the first movie is on, and the major's voice is actually..possibly even more distractingly awful than I remember it being the time I rented this

That's not hard to believe. When I first saw GitS: SAC premiere on [adult swim], Mary McGlynn sounded so wrong as The Major for some reason. Now, it's hard to imagine anyone else playing the role. Not having watched the original Ghost in the Shell probably helps keep me from imagining the old dub voice, though.

Um, I liked McGlynn as Motoko right off the bat.

And yes, don't listen to the dub of the first movie. Just... don't.
Peace.

Alright having watched the movie a second time, I'm firmly convinced the series and the second movie were better. And I'm not referring to the awful voice as the primary reason or even a large one.

Aw man, the original GiTs movie really suxs after watching it like 10years later, they should really re-dub it with the current motoko english seiyuu.

According too Richard Epcar, the VA for Batou and several other sources have said that the Laughing Man OVA (the first season shorted into OVA form) won't have the Animaze cast but is in fact done by The Ocean Group. This isn't the first time Bandai has done this, Char's Counter Attack had an Animaze dub way back in 99, but then redubbed with ocean.

http://www.crystalacids.com/ (http://www.crystalacids.com/)

What? Eww.

Besides, why would I need that OAV aside from getting it just because I am that much of a whore for Ghost? (I am, but still...)

PROTIP: FUNDING OCEAN GROUP ONLY ENCOURAGES OCEAN GROUP.
War.

...why is the Laughing Man season being formatted into OVA form anyway? Its quite fine the way it is.
Peace.

It reminds me vaguely of how they released x-files dvds only containing the episodes revolving around the overarching conspiracy plotline.

I'm guessing thats what this is, just the laughing man episodes without the "stand alone" ones.

AKA: They want money

This is one series where the fillers don't suck ass! D:

quite true, but they're not called 'filler' episodes but 'stand alone' which sounds cool. i especially liked the one where motoko and batou were in belgium.

...to be picky, it was Germany. But your point reminds the same, yeah.
Peace.

OK, I've seen a handful of episodes of GITS SAC and the "2nd" series, and as cop/spy/special forces shows, they're very good, in both animation and story.

However, I've missed the philosophical stuff so far. Maybe it just hasn't "hit" me yet.

It seem's similar to the first Armitage III OVA (I've heard the 2nd one sucks, but curiousity might get me to watch it someday). Armitage's philosophical ideas were "How organic can you make a robot before you consider it a human?", and "How robotic can you make a human before you consider it a machine?" It also questioned whether machines should still be considered expendable when they become more human. Like GITS, it also had a cop/special forces feeling to it.

I guess that's the thing except for the episode with the cyberized security guards. I don't remember another where someone questioned the human/machine threshold.

I wasn't sure about the AI tanks before, but they're starting to grow on me. 8)

(http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/10/10-12-07-tachikoma.jpg)

...

I really want to get one, but I don't think I could convince myself to spend that much on, well, that.

The Tachikomas have always been, and always will be awesome.

Final Negotiator: You'd really have to watch the entire series to get the full philosophical ideas of The Laughing Man (1st Gig) or The Individual Eleven (2nd Gig). Or, you could just watch those stories collected into two hour chunks. I think Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex - The Laughing Man just came out on DVD.

Am I the only one here who liked the Puppet Master story over the Stand Alone Complex gigs?
War.

...I hope so, because the Individual Eleven arc in 2nd GIG is far superior in just about every aspect in my opinon.
Peace.

Cool. You know, I would love to see a video game where you and The Tachikomas square off against the pink spider things from The Big O Acts 23 & 24. Absolute carnage! Vegeta, back me up on this one... Would it not rock?

Pink... spider things? Sorry, I just got a mental image of a bunch of Tachikomas battling Arachnid Warriors. now THAT would be cool.
War.

Those robots in episode 23 I think it was that attacked the Smith mansion in order to capture Dorothy and extract her memories.
Tachikomas would own those things BTW.

If ya ask me, the Pink Scorpion Bots are just a retro-ized version of the Tachikoma. I bet the Big O mecha designers did just that.

Well, we all know plenty about the Tachikoma. I'm curious about the Uchikoma. Does SSS show any Uchikoma in action?

Tachikomas versus Arachnid Warriors. I like this idea.

(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1308/arachnid312dfc809ub6.jpg)

Versus

(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3671/tachikomasmallvk6.png)

And I thought so far, all we'd seen of the Uchikoma was just them, being around, after the Tachikoma sacrificed themselves.
War.

I can't actually decide which I preferred. The Laughing Man storyline was really well written, in my opinion. Well, until that last episode where they actually meet with Aoi and discuss the entire incident for the sake of the viewers.

Despite really, really disliking Salinger from what I've read of his stuff, I had no problems with the laughing man arc (which heavily, heavily referenced catcher in the rye of course).

Except...well yes, the last "NOW EVERYTHING GETS EXPLAINED" part, was sort of forced.

Um, I actually liked that episode (especially the last couple of minutes). But the explanation wasn't really needed if you were paying attention, yeah.
Peace.

Yeah, these guys:
(http://www.paradigm-city.com/images/ep23/Scorpions1.jpg)
(http://www.paradigm-city.com/images/ep23/Scorpions3.jpg)

No doubt the Tachikomas would own. I'm just saying that it wouldn't be a boring fight...



From Starship Troopers, right? This would indeed rock...

.The Final Negotiator.

Glad someone recognized my idea for once. Hmmf.
War.

Wow, I didn't remember them being quite so ridiculously pink.

I wasn't surprised. It's Big O, they had their fair share of ridiculous crap.
War.

So, essentially I've decided Caprica to be the non-animu successor to this show in terms of wordy backstory on ficticious political systems and crime syndicates (judging by the pilot, if they keep going in that direction this is pretty much exactly what it'll be)

It's just instead of tachikomas it's cylons.

You know, Cylons used to be these awesome stormtrooper knockoffs, except shiny and with swords. Or they had plastic cone heads with visible computers inside. Like my old avatar.

Anyway, back to GitS:

I always wondered what Ishikawa did that made him such an effective search engine and hacker. Isn't he like some sort of master detective?

On the other hand, perhaps it was wise that the writers to never get into it. Their ideas of cutting-edge detective work might have looked rudimentary to us viewers from later generations.

Every now and then they sort of offhandedly mention him finding a backdoor into (insert super-secure government/corporation database here) or stumbling across some pertinent piece of information. Maybe he was just really, really, really good with future-google.

Come to think of it...most/all the supporting team got some kind of episode specifically dealing with their backstory, except I don't think they ever really did that with him? I can't remember.

Ok this just occured to me, I forget if its been covered. It may even have been explained within the show, but I haven't been rewatching it in a long while (as its on at 5:30 or some insane deal)

...Okay, if I remember right, in the 2nd season one plot point is the major knew the terrorist leader because they were both in the hospital as kids or something. So if she was dying as a kid, then she got her brain put into the cybernetic body at that point?

So...does the cybernetic body age along with the brain, or did they just stick her brain into an adult body right then and there (which would be sort of weird), or were there multiple upgrades throughout her life? Same goes for the terrorist leader (Kuze? I think was the name?).

Like whats confusing me, and again I think I'm misremembering it, is if she grew up being cybridized...yeah do they ever explain how its even possible to 'grow up' if its just "Scoop out brain, put in mechanical corpus, end of procedure"

edit: I stick to my "Ishikawa was just super-super good at future googling plus access to crazy black-ops hacking techniques" theory, as I've mentioned on many occasions he is to that show what the chloe character is in 24. The hand-wave "internet did it" character.

I remember this, being fully glued to the screen during every GitS episode. Matoko mentioned that she underwent periodic body transplants. It's left to the viewer to realize why: I assume, to ensure she experienced some form of  normal growth during childhood and adolescence, and also to adapt her brain case and neurological connections to a growing brain. Advanced as GitS technology is, it doesn't look like they have cyborgs that can grow.


I agree this is a  good explanation. Future-google!

I saw an episode of it, a couple of weeks ago, where my question is explicitly answered and I guess I'd just forgotten about that episode..they only air them at 5 am on saturday, so its been a while since I've watched it.

(In the last episode of the first season, Batou makes some comment about a watch shes saving, and mokoto says something along the lines of "I had my brain transplanted into different bodies as required". So the implication was the brain/consciousness ages, and gets put into bodies matching its age. I suppose)