Was it worth it? (Big O)

[The Ghost Of Ember]

Due to it's sixty's atmosphere and western orientation, Big O was a risky project from the get-go. It got rejected at least once before entering production, I believe. Even when it did get produced, after the first season it looked like it was done for. (To be fair, putting it on a satellite channel didn't help it's chances.) It did turn out to be a relative success in the west, but the only reason a second season was produced was because Cartoon Network came out of nowhere asking for a second season. While some of the staff came out saying that was what they hoped for in interviews, but I doubt that they really expected it.

So what's the point of this thread other than a history lesson?

Largely I want to ask if you think that Big O would have been less of a risk and more of a success if it had allowed itself to be more generically anime? Would you have preferred a longer, but more generic series, or the current state we have now? Was it worth it to go for the unique nature when it may have meant leaving it on a forever cliffhanger with the first season? Were they protecting artistic integrity, or merely making a bad gamble? Where does 'art' end and business begin? Does Big O even count as 'Art'?

My own opinion is mixed. At some level I do not believe in 'art' as most people present, so in that vein the pragmatic decision to do what produces more money makes more sense. But at the same level I shudder at the idea of average anime tropes being thrown into Big O. I'd like to say this is merely a matter of taste, but I really do have this little alarm going 'artist compromise!' going off inside my head at the idea. Even though I do not believe that 'art' as a higher calling. If that's not proof I'm a walking mass of contradictions I do not know what is. I suppose I could explain it away by saying that works that do not stay true to whatever their creators intended are less likely to be successful than potentially risky idea's, but then I get caught up using vague, artistically inclined words like 'vision' and 'soul' to describe my point.

[Char Aznable]

Let me try to unconfuse you and possibly simplify things.

Big O has robots. Big ones and little ones.

It has an intriguing storyline (in my opinion).

It has little robots integrating with the big robots.

It has big robots destroying other big robots.

It has a restart button.

Enjoy.

Okay, I feel like I accomplished very little now.

[The Big Finale]

But at the same level I shudder at the idea of average anime tropes being thrown into Big O.

Big O is pretty full of them to begin with. Other, more universally generic tropes too. Most ideas are inherently neutral or bad, it's the execution that makes them good or great.

[Big Money]

Big O being crazy and western was Big O's appeal for me... apart from the giant robots breaking stuff. Which I admit was a large part of it. If it were like any other mecha, it wouldn't have caught my interest nearly as much; I liked the gundam stuff I saw on Toonami ((LOL, he's a WINGER???)), but Toonami's "ONE PART BATMAN..." plug was what piqued my interest way back when the show first aired. Then, of course, how the show never made sense, never made good on answering its own questions (no doubt a problem that arose from the whole "make toys first, make sense later" pitch that the creaters went through; though they never made good on the toys, either, the bums), and interesting and bizzare setting and characters were what kept me going. The colors weren't bad too, thought that's more for season 1 than two.

Though, on the whole, I prefer the limited-run cartoon to the sprawling, endless-succesion-of-ever-more-powerful-villains type of show... with some exceptions. I mean, everyone loves DBZ, no matter how much they may deny it.


Oh, yeah, I forgot the other best part of this show:

Schwartzwald. I have yet to encounter a better villain in any medium I have encountered, but WW Ganondorf came real close.

[Jonny Axehandle]

It was worth it. If Big O were just a generic anime and were more successful it could have ended up like Inuyasha or several other anime which got more episodes than needed. I would LOVE to have a third season or even a fourth, but some "successful" animes have hit over 1000 episodes! I would have lost interest by Act 2 if Big O were generic.

[Char Aznable]

Personally, I think it could do with one more season that has more of a "behind the stage" thing to answer all of the questions that arose.

[Rev XVII]

Big O being crazy and western was Big O's appeal for me... apart from the giant robots breaking stuff. Which I admit was a large part of it. If it were like any other mecha, it wouldn't have caught my interest nearly as much; I liked the gundam stuff I saw on Toonami ((LOL, he's a WINGER???)), but Toonami's "ONE PART BATMAN..." plug was what piqued my interest way back when the show first aired. Then, of course, how the show never made sense, never made good on answering its own questions (no doubt a problem the arose from the whole "make toys first, make sense later" pitch that the creaters went through; though they never made good on the toys, either, the bums), and interesting and bizzare setting and characters were what kept me going. The colors weren't bad too, thought that's more for season 1 than two.

First point: LOL. Yeah, the 1 part Batman thing was what always made me laugh about it.  

The storyline in general (like the basic, without all the frickin' details that made it confusing) were what piqued me. I also happened to be a third grader when it first aired, making me an incredibly easy-to-entertain person (oh, wait, I still am...). Looking back now, it wasn't bad. But the first season made more sense even when I didn't watch it all in order. The second however...well, I was (and still am) incredibly lost. Thanks to Byranx back at the old forum, I was able to "see" Episode 14 due to his transcript...

Third Point (second point stated above): I loved the character...except for the fact that Roger's eyebrows...and his increasingly huge shoulders. But now that I'm a little older, it doesn't look so odd to me (because I draw...and I do dork things like that too). Colors all dull all around, but seem a bit brighter in the second season. But that's the way Paradigm is supposed to look, isn't it?

I like how it's kind of an old style place too, like the phones and the cars are all...kind of vintage almost.

Later days,
Rev

[Char Aznable]

That vintage just adds to the mystery of the whole "What is going on?" effect!

(psst. 13 posts!   Couldn't help but note it)

[DOMON KASSHU!]

Big O was a good show. Honestly, though, I preferred Gundam MS 08th Squadron. I just thought it was an honestly better show.

Not to knock Big O, but it was full of many clichés that MS 08th Squad lacked, which I liked. Although admittedly, making fun of Japanese people in an anime was exceedingly entertaining.
War.

[Galatea]

OF COURSE IT WAS WORTH IT! Or i wouldn't be here...

[DOMON KASSHU!]

It's cool that Big O has such a cult following, but honestly, I am glad that this new incarnation is a little more generic. Maybe with a little wider focus we can draw in an even larger active crowd.
War.

[The Ghost Of Ember]

Big O is pretty full of them to begin with. Other, more universally generic tropes too. Most ideas are inherently neutral or bad, it's the execution that makes them good or great.

I was unclear on my point there, but I was thinking more along the line of more traditional anime style and falling over and sweatdrops and jazz, rather than specific tropes. I'm exaggerating, of course, but you know what I mean. I know Big O often embraces tropes (look at any of the mad scientist characters), but I don't think that's the whole story. It seems more like the tropes are used as a deliberate tool, rather than things unconsciously falling into play that way. Dorothy, for instance, very much encompasses the 'robot/impassive girl' that is a very common trope in anime, but at the same time I feel she surpasses being merely a trope and sometimes even subverts it.

As far as the point of most idea's being neutral are bad... I'm not sure if I agree. I do agree that execution is a huge factor, but I think bad execution can ruin a good idea as much as good execution can make a bad idea good.

Oh, yeah, I forgot the other best part of this show:

Schwartzwald. I have yet to encounter a better villain in any medium I have encountered, but WW Ganondorf came real close.

Quoted for emphasis.

Big O was a good show. Honestly, though, I preferred Gundam MS 08th Squadron. I just thought it was an honestly better show.

That's probably the only Gundam I remember with anything but a degree of nostalgic fondness. Most of the other series now strike me as a little too generic and melodramatic (without the benefit of camp). But 08th MS always struck me as better simply because it was more about the life of a soldier and the nature of the military, oh and the soldier just happens to pilot a giant robot. Of course, my memory has been distorted over time. I need to rewatch it to see if my recollection is correct.

[DOMON KASSHU!]

That's probably the only Gundam I remember with anything but a degree of nostalgic fondness. Most of the other series now strike me as a little too generic and melodramatic (without the benefit of camp). But 08th MS always struck me as better simply because it was more about the life of a soldier and the nature of the military, oh and the soldier just happens to pilot a giant robot. Of course, my memory has been distorted over time. I need to rewatch it to see if my recollection is correct.

Your recollection is accurate.
War.

[Mike]

Big O was awesome because it had huge robots.
Piloted by guys in suits.
And they destroyed pretty much everything.
Weekly.

I really didn't like season 2 though. It was really weird, and confusing, and made my brain hurt. Also the ending made no sense.

08th MS Team...now THAT is a show. I'd like to return my SEED and have more of that, please.
Me = UC snob.

[Char Aznable]

Yes! I second the return of SEED!!!