Is Roger a Coordinator?

[D]

um, i was never pulling religion into this, and i only meant i thought roger was physical inhanced before birth like a coordinator. does that help clear things up on my end so have fun with ur theories.

You need spellcheck like Georgia needs water.

[Professor Vogler]

Don't know about anyone else, but I prefer to avoid that thought, as it leads me towards thinking Big O has something in common with Evangelion, king of badly done Christianity references.

It wasn't badly done.... just over done. Big time. There were Christian references that you'd have to pull out theoretical and philosophical books just to get (besides the Bible). The show itself was just a mindf@$% to watch.

Big O's got Christian overtones but they usually pop up when dealing with the Rosewaters or The Event. Memories (the biggest subject of Big O II) don't have much to do with God or Christianity aside from Gordon Rosewater "playing God". The megadeuses themselves aren't even very godly or angelic... quite the opposite, they are manmade, bulky (realistic when compared to the agility and complexity of Gundams or Evas), and very cold.
Saying Roger is Jesus is plausible, but unlikely and frowned upon.  If it were they're intention to make Rog = Jesus, it'd be made blatantly obvious with very Jesus-like things (like miracles and the like). In fact the only times we see crosses (a very Jesus related symbol) heavily associated with characters are during Big Fau's final battle with Big O and Eugine's chimera laboratory.

Besides, Roger is more Paradigm City's guardian angel, than it's messiah. Hell, he destroyed more of Paradigm City than he ended up saving.

As far as the continuity of the show goes, Roger Smith is a robot.

Wrong, Sir. Wrong.

Note that in Act26 he sees a vision of himself being massproduced as an android... immediately after which he yells "NO!"


*Edit*
Hell, he destroyed more of Paradigm City than he ended up saving.
Oooo I just thought of something... Roger could very well be a representation of the person we all want to be. Chivalrous, strong, handsom, wealthy, good, and caring.  However, like all of us, he strays from his nature more and more when he's pushed into very harsh situations.
Note that in Act10 with the giant toy robot he has to throw it outside of the dome to destroy it.  As the series progresses he becomes more and more careless with his destruction piloting Big O. First in Act 12 with Big Duo's nukes.... again in Act14 with the hip-anchors that strike a dozen points of the shoreline... then in Act 21 where he lets Bonaparte run rampant (granted he was trying to save Dorothy)... then again in Act 24 he ended up blasting O-Thunder through multiple buildings... and ultimately killing hundreds if not thousands when he obliterated Paradigm Dome.

Each time he was trying to do some good... but did the good outweight the damage?

[Anebo]

It wasn't badly done.... just over done. Big time. There were Christian references that you'd have to pull out theoretical and philosophical books just to get (besides the Bible). The show itself was just a mindf@$% to watch

Unless, of course, one already had a PhD in Classics with an emphasis in late Greek philosophy and Patristics (the study of the Church Fathers).

Perhaps the show, as you describe it, might be diverting then, though I've never watched it.

Big O's got Christian overtones but they usually pop up when dealing with the Rosewaters or The Event. Memories (the biggest subject of Big O II) don't have much to do with God or Christianity aside from Gordon Rosewater "playing God". The megadeuses themselves aren't even very godly or angelic... quite the opposite, they are manmade, bulky (realistic when compared to the agility and complexity of Gundams or Evas), and very cold.
Saying Roger is Jesus is plausible, but unlikely and frowned upon.  If it were they're intention to make Rog = Jesus, it'd be made blatantly obvious with very Jesus-like things (like miracles and the like). In fact the only times we see crosses (a very Jesus related symbol) heavily associated with characters are during Big Fau's final battle with Big O and Eugine's chimera laboratory.

Besides, Roger is more Paradigm City's guardian angel, than it's messiah. Hell, he destroyed more of Paradigm City than he ended up saving.

The lost memory motif comes from Plato--the memories of each life are wiped out by the soul's drinking from the River Lethe prior to the next reincarnation.

Roger constantly saves Paradigm City, using the power of God, especially from the machinations of its ruler. Don't forget that in the NT the ruler of the world is the Prince of the Powers of the Air--the Devil. This kind of salvation is, of course, the paraclete's--err...Jesus'--primamry function (there's those damn theology books again).

Recall, too, that after Jesus' return, he intends to compeltely destroy the world (by then a burnt out battlefield anyway, with all the giant scorpions running around and much else: the oceans turned to poison,  the third part of the stars fallen, etc.) before repalcing it with the New Jerusalem.

[Jixie]

Some very good points being brought up here.

I don't think of Roger being meant as a Jesus figure either. To the contrary; I think there was more of a Jesus metaphore around Alex.

Big O's got Christian overtones but they usually pop up when dealing with the Rosewaters or The Event.

Yes, and I really agree with Anebo on this... while Alex certainly has more Christian-related imagery associated with him, he is also such a fraud. Now I find Alex to be a pretty fascinating antagonist, but he is so haughty, power-hungry, self centered, and his idea of ushering in a new era involved destroying everything, and on that note is basically the exact opposite of Jesus and all he represents. Not that I think he is supposed to be the anti-christ or anything like that, but he is very human... very flawed... and thinks very highly of himself. He also preaches a lot of nonsense. (Oh yes, I think that his comment about god's son being born on Heaven's Day was in part a reference to himself.)

Another biblical reference is the very symbolic number 40. The flood which lasted 40 days, the Israelites who wandered for 40 years, Jesus fasting in the wilderness for 40 days. I've always felt that this was significant but not sure why.

The most blatant reference is where Schwartzwald quotes directly from writing by William Blake and others. I think, though, that this had more to do with making Crispy sound more prophetic and insane that anything. Ember, care to help out on this one?

~J

PS: Evan, love your avatar!

[6moondance]

This is similar to threads on the PC and SBO forums and it is interesting now as it was then.  Big O does have a lot of Christian imagery but it also has a lot of purely Jewish imagery too.  First of all there is the 40 years that elapsed since the Event.  In the Torah (Jewish Bible) the number 40 signifies transition.  The 40 days of rain in the story of Noah symbolized a transition from the old sinful world to the better world established by Noah and his children.  It took the Israelites 40 years of wandering in the desert before they made the transition from slaves in Egypt to a free people living in their own land.   

There are more parallels between Roger and Moses than between Roger and Christ.  Roger like Moses was adopted into a wealthy family and reared as a member of the upper classes.  Moses was an ordinary human summoned by God to be used as His instrument, (i.e. Lead the Israelites out of slavery and bring God's Torah into the world)  Roger was summoned by a god to be its instrument (pilot) The strongest parallel between the two however are in the last lines of Big O.  The fight between Big Fau and Big O ends only after Angel destroys Fau.  She is ready to destroy the rest of Paradigm City until Roger convinces her not to.  In the Torah, Moses returns from receiving the Ten Commands to find the Israelites worshiping the golden calf.  God is so angry that He's ready to destroy the Israelites.  Moses convinces God to give them another chance. 

Then there's Big Ear. Big O is the only anime I've seen that features an Ultra-orthodox Jew as a regular character.   His enigmatic use of language and wry humor reminds me of some of the Hassidic folk tales that I've heard and read. 

PS Evan, I like your avatar too.

[Professor Vogler]

Unless, of course, one already had a PhD in Classics with an emphasis in late Greek philosophy and Patristics (the study of the Church Fathers).

Perhaps the show, as you describe it, might be diverting then, though I've never watched it.

No seriously, the show is a certifiable mindf@#&. The director got death threats as a result of the making that series... which he then actually put into one of the spin-off movies.

The lost memory motif comes from Plato--the memories of each life are wiped out by the soul's drinking from the River Lethe prior to the next reincarnation.

Roger constantly saves Paradigm City, using the power of God, especially from the machinations of its ruler. Don't forget that in the NT the ruler of the world is the Prince of the Powers of the Air--the Devil. This kind of salvation is, of course, the paraclete's--err...Jesus'--primamry function (there's those damn theology books again).

I don't mean to nitpick, but "Powers of the Air" ... if that litterally means dominating the air, then that would hint at Schwarzwald being the devil (or perhaps Alan Gabriel...with the ironic last name). Though I cannot see Schwarzwald as being the devil, evil yes but not the devil....

Recall, too, that after Jesus' return, he intends to compeltely destroy the world (by then a burnt out battlefield anyway, with all the giant scorpions running around and much else: the oceans turned to poison,  the third part of the stars fallen, etc.) before repalcing it with the New Jerusalem.

This here is a contradiction to your "Rog = Jesus" theory.

From Act11 we hear Rosewater say: "Do you know the meaning behind Heaven's Day? ...It's the day God's son was born."
With Alex Rosewater being the only "son" in this series of any significance, and Gordon Rosewater being the absentminded God (the creator of his "cherished tomatoes")... Alex is more the Jesus figure. However, it's only technically... and more likely "anti-Christ" than Christ.

Now to clarify my sensing a contradiction... Alex Rosewater planned to rebuild Paradigm City (the city that his Father had built) by first getting rid of "all you filthy scum". He does this by purposefully destroying Paradigm City. In acts 25 and 26 he constantly mentions reshaping Paradigm in his image. He commisions Beck to capture Dorothy using SCORPION robots. Big Fau is the megadeus of the sea, which has become the death trap for Roger Smith. Big Fau shoots down the stars (stage lights) from the Megadome (aka stage rigging... I just like calling it The Megadome).

Finally... Gordon Rosewater's farm (Garden) is burned to the ground. The destruction of/exile from Eden.

...I think you can see where I'm headed with this.

[The Final Negotiator]

What makes you think that was figurative? As far as the continuity of the show goes, Roger Smith is a robot. Big O was a robot. It doesn't take much to infer that everyone in Paradigm city was a robot, without knowing it. As far as the continuity of the show goes.

Actually, I thought the robot scene was his prophetic vision of the future after his death (remember he was very close to death when he envisioned the robots). He knew from talking to Beck that Alex and Beck were working together (remember, Roger didn't hear Beck's confession to Dorothy and Norman) and he knew that Beck could create Roger androids. Was "tomato" Roger about to be replaced by a "Paradigm Dog", corporation-friendly Roger android? I don't blame him for screaming "No". He almost witnessed the death of a man AND his soul...

um, i was never pulling religion into this, and i only meant i thought roger was physical inhanced before birth like a coordinator. does that help clear things up on my end so have fun with ur theories.

Yeah, I was on your "science" discussion before the "religion" tidal wave hit.  Your point was made perfectly.

I guess we're all unsure, because Roger doesn't seem to be enhanced. However, does anyone notice that he's rarely ill, and hardly ever injured (except for the bullet from R-D)? In fact, even as a "wanderer", he seems to be in good health... Even in the old picture in "Metropolis", he seems in good health... That good health could have been a result of genetic tinkering. Maybe he's not superhuman, but always "in his prime"...

[shadowdorothy]

i've never seen a "hero" ill or mangled for that matter. but then again it would be no fun if the hero was sick now would it?

[R. Daniel 01]

It seems to me that Anebo is once again thinking too far into what she sees. I agree with Jixie; we're meant to enjoy Roger's visions more as metaphors than as expositions.

I give kudos to Jixie. Making posts like those above would definitely take a lot out of me! Also, props to 6moondance for pointing up the Hebrew correlations. I sense a stronger parallel overall.

It's fun to think of Paradigm Tower as a big golden idol... though it looks like this Tower of Babel. I wouldn't be surprised if the artists thought it'd be clever to tie two stories into one by making a GOLDEN Tower of Babel.